Foolproof test for checking 1893 S Morgan authenticity?

Discussion in 'US Coins Forum' started by Gam3rBlake, May 3, 2022.

  1. Gam3rBlake

    Gam3rBlake Well-Known Member

    I might sound like a total idiot but I’ve been doing some reading and I discovered that there is a “diagnostic” line in the T in Liberty in every single genuine 1893 S Morgan Dollar.

    Here is an example:

    But I’m wondering…is this test foolproof?

    You can check for yourself and you’ll see that EVERY 1893 S has that diagnostic line in the T in Liberty.

    Here is a second example:

    Here is another example:


    Is this a foolproof test? Like if an 1893 S coin had that mark and the coin is the correct weight & the dimensions measure correctly is that enough evidence the coin is legit to make a purchase?
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  3. charley

    charley Well-Known Member

  4. love old coins

    love old coins Well-Known Member

  5. Gam3rBlake

    Gam3rBlake Well-Known Member

    Ohhh I didn’t see those articles.

    In my defense I did begin my post with acknowledging I may come across as an idiot. ;)

    The only thing that surprises me is why counterfeiters would even bother trying to fake them when there is a clear and obvious way to tell genuine from counterfeit.
  6. Hommer

    Hommer Curator of Semi Precious Coinage Supporter

    First, an easy test, without a loupe, the one should align with a denticle.
    longshot and Jack D. Young like this.
  7. Gam3rBlake

    Gam3rBlake Well-Known Member

    But see this is just something I learned today so having an easy non destructive way to identify fakes from authentic 1893 S Morgan Dollars feels like I gained a superpower. Even if it is kind of lame for a superpower. It’s better than nothing!
    Jack D. Young likes this.
  8. Jack D. Young

    Jack D. Young Well-Known Member

    The concern is that it may not show well on lower grade examples.

  9. Gam3rBlake

    Gam3rBlake Well-Known Member

    That’s a good point! I imagine most people would be buying lower grade examples too considering even a grade of Fair 2 is like $5,000. o_O

    I wonder if maybe the counterfeiters purposely wear the letters away enough to make it impossible to know if there were the marks there.
    Jack D. Young likes this.
  10. Dave Waterstraat

    Dave Waterstraat Well-Known Member

    I always look for the bunny ears in the R if the date and mint mark positions match.
    Gam3rBlake and Jack D. Young like this.
  11. Jack D. Young

    Jack D. Young Well-Known Member

    And poor resolution images on-line make it tough as well. This is an example I saved images of:

    Only 2 reverse dies used, so I did a comparison of the mm of this one to the two:

    mm comps.jpg
    Gam3rBlake and Dave Waterstraat like this.
  12. Dave Waterstraat

    Dave Waterstraat Well-Known Member

    No need to look for the die markers on that one...
    Jack D. Young likes this.
  13. Treashunt

    Treashunt The Other Frank

    so, the slabbed one is NG?
  14. justafarmer

    justafarmer Senior Member

    Absence of the markers provides someone with a high level of confidence in attributing a 1893-S Morgan as counterfeit. Presence of the markers doesn't provide anyway near this same level of confidence in attributing the coin as genuine.
    Gam3rBlake likes this.
  15. Gam3rBlake

    Gam3rBlake Well-Known Member

    So how exactly can someone be 100% confident that their coin is authentic?

    Like if someone brought a raw genuine mint condition 1893 S Morgan to NGC or PCGS or one of the big auction houses how would they determine beyond any reasonable doubt that it is indeed genuine?
  16. justafarmer

    justafarmer Senior Member

    I am 100% confident that 100% confidence of authenticity is not achievable.
  17. Conder101

    Conder101 Numismatist

    Difficult to do since the letter are incuse on the coin, LIBERTY is clearly visible even on coins in the Fr-2 AG-3 range. I wouldn't be surprised to still have those features visible even on a Poor-1. You wear it down enough to get rid of LIBERTY you're not going to be able to tell it was a 93 S.
  18. love old coins

    love old coins Well-Known Member

    Oh I wasn't saying you were an idiot! I was just letting you know that what I found on the web confirmed what you found and also added to it. LOL
    Gam3rBlake likes this.
  19. Morgandude11

    Morgandude11 As long as it's Silver, I'm listening

    Not even close to a foolproof test. Want as close as a foolproof test as you can get? Only consider certified 1893s coins, certified by PCGS or NGC, and sold by a very reliable dealer.
    GoldFinger1969 likes this.
  20. ksparrow

    ksparrow Coin Hoarder Supporter

  21. Gam3rBlake

    Gam3rBlake Well-Known Member

    That kind of skips the question I was asking.

    You say to only buy certified PCGS or NGC coins sold by a very reliable dealer..

    But the question remains:

    Then how do PCGS & NGC & reliable dealers know for sure that the coin is authentic?
    GoldFinger1969 likes this.
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