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Message:: [QUOTE="NPCoin, post: 322891, member: 5629"]NOTE: the following applies generally to U.S. transactions and TPGs and "you" used throughout this post is not pointed toward anyone in particular or personally, but is the proverbial "you" of whom it applies. Eventhough I do not know you personally, I will use your name (Ben) when actually talking about/to you. <img src="styles/default/xenforo/clear.png" class="mceSmilieSprite mceSmilie2" alt=";)" unselectable="on" unselectable="on" /> guaranteed buyback enforcement:This would apply only to the individual TPGs that offer it.  You are a consumer and it is your (and ONLY your) responsibility to know what you are purchasing and what the terms of that purchase are.  Just as any sales retailer and wholesaler have their own return policies (as well as manufacturer warranty policies), a TPG is a manufacturer and/or retailer in that aspect, and they have their policies.  If you do not like their policy, then do not buy!  Plain and simple.  You do not have a RIGHT to use a TPG just as you have no right to buy from a specific retailer/dealer if they decide not to sell to you.  You also do not have the right to demand that a retailer/dealer/wholesaler/manufacturer sell you a product based upon your terms and conditions.  That said, if the TPG refuses to honor/enforce their own guaranteed buyback policy in accordance with their published P&P, then you already have everything necessary at your disposal to enforce their policy. You can report them to the FTC with the equated amount of damages incurred, seek an investigation with the FBI for fraud, turn the company in to your State Attorney General's office as well as the AG of the State where they primarily conduct business, and even file a State or Federal Circuit law suit against them for damages. over-grading:A few things here that should be obvious to the seasoned "pros" but will not necessarily apply to those just entering the industry.  First, buy the coin not the slab!  If you have been a numismatist for any proclaimed amount of time, you have no excuse and deserve what you get in over-graded coins.  Second, (and this applies to the "pros" as well as those just getting into coins) you should have at least a working knowledge of what you are purchasing before you do so.  There is a plethora of information available today, not just in printed books and magazines, but also online through Newsgroups, forums, coin clubs, collector societies (or universes :whistle<img src="styles/default/xenforo/clear.png" class="mceSmilieSprite mceSmilie1" alt=":)" unselectable="on" unselectable="on" />, and much, much more.  Granted, a lot of people newly introduced to our obsession are not going to really know much (or any) of this.  But, like I had said, they are still without excuse with regards to educating themselves.  It is just plain foolishness to go out and buy something without having any knowledge of what it is you are truly buying.  This is what the TPGs were "supposed" to help with.  And this is where the concern with over-grading comes in.  Where someone not fully versed in matters of grading a particular coin/series rely upon the "professional" opinion of a TPG.  The only tool that could reliably be used against this practice is simply education.  Learn before you burn (your money on something crappy).  Remember also, grading is subjective.  Although a TPG should not hide behind such a fact in justification of their grade, neither do you as a collector have the right to impose your own standards on the TPG.  Know before you blow (your money on crap).  Find out first what their standards of grading are.  Get a grip and understand that there are no unified "standards" that the whole industry stands behind.  Education, education, education!!! counterfeit:See "Buyback Guarantee Enforcement" above.  But, add the Secret Service to any TPG that refuses to guarantee authenticity within their product REGARDLESS of any guarantee or warranty.  It is illegal in the U.S. to even pass a counterfeit coin as authentic.  Always start enforcement of this type in the court system first after you have documented proof that the coin is in fact counterfeit if the TPG does not reimburse your actual and potential losses. miss-attributed:See "Buyback Guarantee Enforcement" above.  Again, in my opinion, this is an area where the collector should absolutely KNOW what they are buying and should never take the TPG's opinion on the matter.  This opens the collector up to the proverbial snake oil vendor.  Know what you are buying.  This case may only be enforceable if the TPG actually has a guarantee policy in place for attributions.  Even amongst professionals, there are instances where even they argue about certain attributions (some flying eagles come to mind).  Too much can't be said about education!!! fly-by-night slabbers:Again, get everyone that needs to be involved into this issue.  FTC, FBI, Attorney Generals, even the local police department of the TPG's local municipality.  File those reports!!!!  Stop whining and actually utilize the "services" the government already has in place for this kind of stuff.  Nobody can do it on your behalf because YOU are the victim, not them!  If you're a "victim", then act like one, and contact every law enforcer you can think of to file your reports!  If you aren't a "victim", then obviously nothing "wrong" has occurred. If you don't like the TPG's morals or ethics, then do not use them.  And still, enough can't be said about education!  Learn who and what these TPGs are first. There is already a governmental system set up to "regulate" any ACTUAL illegal and/or tortuous claims.  It is called the Judicial Branch of our Government.  With regards to claims against a TPG, this system has been set up on both a State and Federal level.  the system is there, use it.  However, just because you do not "like" something does not make it illegal.  Just because your ethics are different does not make any claim you have of tortuous merit. Do not take this personally (though with what I am about to say, that's gonna be pretty hard to do), but the system Ben proposes is utterly foolish and disregards the three branch system that has been in place in this country for centuries.  Ben proposes to set up a regulatory body that is not elected and has no true legislative nor judicial oversight.  This body, according to Ben's description, would act legislatively by defining the industry standard (or being corruptible by those rich enough to "lobby" it to sway "standards"), thus forcing a standard upon myself, the collector that I myself may not approve of (there is a BIG difference between "market" and "technical" grading, and I lean more toward technical grading, whereas TPGs flaunt the fact they are purely "market" graders.  One reason they are SO inconsistent, but that's a matter for another post), and putting the judicial oversight in an executive office.  Pretty much, Ben is asserting "guilty until proven innocent" which is already proven through other executive "regulatory" agencies to be ineffective (take the FCC for instance). Not only that, Ben is proposing regulation of a HOBBY.  Really think about that one for a few minutes.  Why should this stop with the TPGs?  Doesn't EVERYONE involved with numismatics eventually grade their coins themselvs by their own standards at some point?  Why stop with TPGs and not include the hobbyist as well?  And shouldn't a hobbyist be registered therefore and approved before they are allowed to buy and sell coins?  And wouldn't it be safer for everyone involved to register your coins with this agency so that the counterfeits will be known and removed from the market more easily?  And what about theft!?  Surely coin registration will alleviate many of the problems encountered in locating stolen numismatic property.  And even better, the government itself should simply grade, encapsulate, register, and track every coin with numismatic value since they're the ones that make all of these determinations anyway.  It could even just become another branch of the FRB or Mint, run as a private corporation much like the USPS. I'm sorry, but government has absolutely NO place in my enthusiasm for numismatics as either a hobbyist nor as a professional.  I prefer to look at the worst case scenario on the issue with regards to government and say "absolutely NOT!" from the get go then to fight the uphill battle later when it's already almost too late. It is purely the individual's responsibility to educate themselves and know what they are getting involved with and what they are buying, and we do not need the government involved as our "nanny".  The government already has the proper resources to take care of actual illegal and/or tortuous claims in both the executive and judicial branches of both State and Federal government.  If the claims do not have merit with the plethora of agencies there specifically for these issues, then obviously you made a mistake and should learn from it. Take it all with a grain of salt, and remember, my opinion may not even be worth half the value of a coin in an SGS slab! <img src="styles/default/xenforo/clear.png" class="mceSmilieSprite mceSmilie9" alt=":eek:" unselectable="on" unselectable="on" />[/QUOTE]

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