Five pounds of Rude

Discussion in 'Ancient Coins' started by rrdenarius, Jun 19, 2017 at 3:07 PM.

  1. rrdenarius

    rrdenarius non omnibus dormio Supporter

    An interesting piece of history arrived today. I will post some pics with other pieces soon.
    One Quarter of a Circular Shaped Bronze Ingot
    The piece weighs 1443 grams, or about 5 roman pounds.
    IMG_3654.JPG
    IMG_3655.JPG
    IMG_3656.JPG
    IMG_3657.JPG


    The seller had four cast bronze pieces. This was my favorite of the group. The broken ax looked interesting, and did not sell, but this chewed up my budget for the month.
    The vendor's description -
    AES PREMONETALE. Aes Formatum.
    A Quarter of a large circular cake-shaped bronze ingot. Central Italy, 6th-4th century BC., RRR
    Cf. Garrucci, TAV III, 4 and 5, from the Cere hoard (of about the same shape and weight).
    1443 g
    152 x 97 x 39 m
    Untouched earthy green patina. EF.
    This very rare and fascinating example has the weight of an Aes Signatum or Five Roman Pounds and probably represents a quincussis.

    Garrucci, page 3; five pieces are shown on plate III.
    I translated the text from Garrucci:
    first I broke the Italian into sections to help google translate group the words -
    · Di piu perche vi si vede chiaramente come il metallo si e aperta la via intorno intorno per un fondo che doveva percio essere mobile.
    · Il primo pezzo due libbre e once due
    · once due
    · il secondo due libbre once otto
    · il terzo libbre quattro once otto e mezzo
    · mezzo
    · otto
    · il quarto libbre quattro once tre
    · il quinto libbre quattro once otto e mezzo

    The English, tho I am not sure of all the translations are right. -
    · Most of all, as you can see clearly how the metal opened up the street around for a base that had to be mobile.
    · The first piece two pounds and two ounces
    · Once two
    · The second two pounds eight ounces
    · The third pound four times eight and a half
    · half
    · eight
    · The fourth pound four times three
    · The fifth pound four times eight and a half
     
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  3. Nicholas Molinari

    Nicholas Molinari Well-Known Member

    Great addition. I wonder how they broke up these units in antiquity? Even with smaller pieces it would be fairly difficult.
     
  4. Santinidollar

    Santinidollar Supporter! Supporter

    Can you make change for this?

    Most interesting. Thanks for sharing!
     
  5. ancientcoinguru

    ancientcoinguru Supporter! Supporter

    Wow, that's a really big one! I have a
    disk-shaped aes formatum (135 mm, ~1500 g), basically one-half of a circular shaped bronze ignot. Your one-quarter cast bronze is almost the same size as my one-half bronze. I am traveling but will post a photo when I get home.

    Nice purchase!

    Edited to post some photos:

    aes formatum disk shaped 1.png aes formatum disk shaped 2.png aes formatum disk shaped 3.png

    4th century B.C.
    Disk-shaped aes formatum (135 mm, ~1500 g)
    As Cast, green patina with heavy earthen deposits
    Mounded obverse, flat reverse. Haeberlin p. 4, pl. 2.7.
     
    Last edited: Jun 22, 2017 at 1:37 PM
    Alegandron, rrdenarius and gregarious like this.
  6. gregarious

    gregarious E Pluribus Unum

    wow...heavy man..(and neat too!) i like it!
     
  7. ancient coin hunter

    ancient coin hunter lost in history

    Not easy currency to lug around but pretty darn cool.
     
    gregarious likes this.
  8. randygeki

    randygeki Coin Collector

  9. Loong Siew

    Loong Siew Well-Known Member

    Cool Roman ingot!!
     
    gregarious likes this.
  10. 4to2centBC

    4to2centBC Well-Known Member

  11. Alegandron

    Alegandron "ΤΩΙ ΚΡΑΤΙΣΤΩΙ..." ΜΕΓΑΣ ΑΛΕΞΑΝΔΡΟΣ, June 323 BCE Supporter

    Nice Gene! I'd like to see that in a Saflip, just so it has a little more protection...:)

    At this point, Although I enjoy Aes Grave / Formatum coinage, I have not moved into the Nimitz Class Aircraft Carrrier size coinage! That is a fantastic piece that you captured! Well done!
     
  12. KirkCumberland

    KirkCumberland Active Member

    It's a big chunk for sure..cast metals usually break easier..if they added some gold , silver or other elements, it would be one piece now..
     
  13. rrdenarius

    rrdenarius non omnibus dormio Supporter

    This one came in a zip lock baggie with an ID tag taped to the outside. I will store it in a tray, yet to be determined.
     
    Alegandron likes this.
  14. Nicholas Molinari

    Nicholas Molinari Well-Known Member

  15. Aethelred

    Aethelred The Old Dead King Supporter

    This is without a doubt the most Rude thread I have seen here!
     
    TJC and rrdenarius like this.
  16. -jeffB

    -jeffB Greshams LEO Supporter

    But... but... what if it got dust on its surfaces? Or, worse yet, fingerprints?

    Oh, sorry, thought I was back in the US Coins forum for a second. :rolleyes:
     
  17. Dougmeister

    Dougmeister The Coin Scavenger © ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

    Help the ancient noobs here... what is 'rude' in this context?
     
  18. rrdenarius

    rrdenarius non omnibus dormio Supporter

    Romans were late to the coin minting game. Their first struck silver coins start about 280 BC. About the same time they issued cast bronze coins, Aes Grave. Before that, they used pieces of cast bronze, Aes Rude, in lieu of coins (as a raw material for bronze smiths, as a means of exchange, to accumulate wealth, for votive offerings to gods, etc.) The piece shown is one of the forms of cast bronze from a time before Rome issued coins.
    Below is a smaller piece of Aes Rude (about 50 grams) and two Aes Grave cast coins.
    DSCN0695.JPG
     
  19. Alegandron

    Alegandron "ΤΩΙ ΚΡΑΤΙΣΤΩΙ..." ΜΕΓΑΣ ΑΛΕΞΑΝΔΡΟΣ, June 323 BCE Supporter

    I understand 'Rude' is pronounced as Rooday.
     
  20. TJC

    TJC Well-Known Member

    Fantastic addition Rrdenarius!!! It must be incredible to hold it in hand.
    Congrats on such a nice piece!

    Here my only compatible piece. A much smaller Aes Grave.
    AesGraveTor475O4x.jpg AesGraveTor475R4x.jpg
     
  21. dlhill132

    dlhill132 Member Supporter

    rrd, you have an awesome collection! love the new piece.

    ~Doug
     
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