First time I've seen PCGS spell it out... Slide Marks.

I was referring to the mechanism which causes circulation wear.

 

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Changes in luster from circulation are readily distinguishable from dull luster from a cleaning IMHO.

 

Thanks for your research. I have found that the two major grading services are the folks who use the weasel words the most. I'll guarantee that the "slide marks" noted on the ANACS coin look nothing like the OP's hairlined example.

Absolutely true. This is what often happens.

Obviously, any negative comment will lower a coin's value to most of us. Nevertheless, we should all be ecstatic that our coins are at least slabbed rather than returned in a "body bag!"

EyeAppealingCoins posted: "It would take a lot of mechanical manipulation with your finger to dull a coin significantly. There are grey areas with everything, but I think you can form reasonable boundaries between cleaning and other issues. Another difference would be the degree of impairment and the surface area involved."

Actually, "thumbing" dulls a surface extremely quickly.

EyeAppealingCoins continued: "I suppose is also depends on what your definition of "cleaned" is. Does it assume the use of a detergent or chemical? Does mere wiping count? If the latter, you could argue that rubbing a finger on it to remove debris from the surface is analogous to using a cloth and could count in the right set of circumstances."

Cleaning is either chemical, mechanical, or a combination of both. It occurs in degrees. It is in a collector's best interest to be able to detect that a surface is not original. Some may even wish to learn what caused it.

EyeAppealingCoins, posted: "Changes in luster from circulation are readily distinguishable from dull luster from a cleaning."

This is a very important statement.

 

Yes, but my point is that degrading the luster is not the only bad effect of a cleaning, since the luster can be degraded from simple circulation.

 

Sorry, but I disagree. I've seen slide marks on straight graded slabbed coins on more than few occasions. If you leave the highest points of the coin’s design in a position when you they come in contact with the slide when you pull it back and forth, you will get the parallel lines.

For me pulling coins in and out of albums is a tricky business, and I approach it with caution. It’s one of the reasons why I have not used albums with slides since the early 1970s.

 

Note to members: While a plastic slide can cause a hairline on the surface of a coin given perfect conditions...

Note: There is a HUGE difference between "WHAT YOU'VE SEEN" and think caused something that happened when you were not around and what actually happened.

PS Who has actually hairlined a coin in an album? When we ge even a dozen yes answers my point about how impossible it is to do will be made! I'm 100% sure it can be done - eventually because of the way I have seen the average collector remove/replace coins in their album when they ask my opinion.

 

Here is an example of album slides can do. It was enough to make me cry because I love the early half dimes. This was once a really nice circulated example of a truly rare coin. The collector didn't even notice it, and I did not have the heart to tell him.



The coin was in a "Liberty of Coins" album, and it was obvious what had done the damage.

So far as inflicting album slide damage on a coin, it's easy. I could set that one up for you in less than a minute.

 

Slides have rough edges and they drag cardboard dust and other garbage across the coins. The dust creates spots over time and the slides scratch the surface of the coin. Albums are really poor protection.

 

Sorry. This coin is no longer in an album. Since it was not yours, I don't know how you can claim the coin has slide marks. All I see is a slightly damaged obverse and a reflection of light (bright lines) on the surface.

When a coin is toned as this, ALMOST ANYTHING can disturb its surface including sliding it on a pad in a TPGS as it is being slabbed! Pressure is involved. Slides don't create pressure.

Now, I suggest rather than opinionate (I thought I just made up this word but spell check let it go ) let's all try to scratch up some coins. MAKE SURE THE COIN IS NOT CENTERED IN THE HOLE to improve your chances 100%.

PS cardboard debris does not scratch coins! Over time it can discolor them.

 

I saw the coin in person; you didn’t. It was in the album. I took the photos. I saw the cause of its problem. You come back with an attack. I have marked you as “ignore” because you are unreasonable. Good bye.

 

Worst case I ever did was a 1803 large cent. Was f details with a bit of crust to the surface it ended up under the interior drawer of my desk. It had bright copper color slide marks though not deep. Still was ugly though

 

Please take the time to think this over. You don't see the albums with the coins still intact. Some of us do and see the damage that the slides cause. I like you Skip but you need to take a step back on this issue.

 

A lot of the coins that show slide marks are in collectors’ albums. The coins are not worth enough to send to a TPG for grading, so they never see them. It is a bigger problem than TPG graders get to see.

 

I see both sides of the fence I can see how the flashes on John's coin look like slide marks and if I was going to classify a coin to the slide mark theory then it would be the picture perfect coin. And to add to the thought I have thought the slide was out of the way when putting a coin into the album and pinched the slide. This got a few coins of mine before I replaced it.
Anyways the slide should always be removed with a roach clip/ alligator clip it keeps the pressure away from the high points as best you can. Besides those couple of coins an album slide has never hurt any of my coins.

 

If you really want to have some fun ask the same questions on CU and see if the alts will respond there

 

johnmilton, post: 3552707, member: "I saw the coin in person; you didn’t."

100% true! However, YOU DID NOT SEE THE PLASTIC SLIDE HARM THE COIN. Therefore, in this particular case, you are posting nonsense.

"It was in the album. I took the photos. I saw the cause of its problem. You come back with an attack. I have marked you as “ignore” because you are unreasonable. Good bye."

Please see above: YOU WERE NOT THERE to determine what caused the DAMAGE on the obverse and I'll guarantee it was not the plastic slide.

Mainebill, posted: "Worst case I ever did was a 1803 large cent. Was f details with a bit of crust to the surface it ended up under the interior drawer of my desk. It had bright copper color slide marks though not deep. Still was ugly though."

Excellent example! I consider this to be first hand knowledge. "Sliding" a coin across many types of surfaces can cause marks. Although they are NOT CALLED "Slide Marks" - a term usually reserved for marks believed to be caused by the plastic
slides in folders. This type of slide mark is not deep and they appear as hairlines not shallow scratches.

ldhair, posted: "Please take the time to think this over. You don't see the albums with the coins still intact. Some of us do and see the damage that the slides cause. I like you Skip but you need to take a step back on this issue."

Thanks for the advice. A plastic folder slide CAN eventually cause hairlines on a coin under EXTREMELY unusual conditions. IMO, based on actual experimentation in/outside class to destroy this virtual myth, it is rare. Give it a try.

The bright spots on the high points of the OP's coin were caused when something rubbed the coin. That abrasion was not from the plastic slide in a coin folder! The numismatists I know do not refer to friction wear as a slide mark.

 

While I agree with your sentiment that damaging coins with album slides is much more difficult than most people think, it does happen. My one and only negative feedback on E-Bay came when I sold a 1940-S Mercury Dime with slide marks on the obverse devices. I listed the problem in the description of the listing but not in the title. The buyer sent the coin to PCGS and it details graded, though I have no idea what they put on the label. IIRC, I purchased the coin raw and examined it under a loupe before placing it in an Intercept Shield album. At this point, it did not have any slide marks. I only noticed them after photographing the coin when I went to sell it.

 

This is a perfect example of hairlines on a coin. The coin looks "gem" yet gets graded 64 by the TPGS and the submitter cannot see the hairlines. Note: they are not visible (even under a scope cranked to 20X) unless the coin is in the correct orientation to see them. Also note the hairlines are diagonal and not horizontal as they would be if the plastic slide in a folder made the marks.

I can put this type of hairline on a gem coin with a paper towel! So yes, something did slide across its surface but unless the coin was placed in the hole at a distracting angle, this was not done by a plastic slide!

 

I just told you that I examined the coin prior to placing the coin in the album and viewed the coin under a loupe and the marks were not there. I am not anal about the coin being perfectly upright in the album, and I didn't ever wipe the coin. The logical conclusion is that I damaged the coin with the album slide when removing it from the album.

 

I'll have to take your word for it. Those microscopic hairlines are what I should expect. Perhaps you should align the coin better in the hole so the slide marks are not diagonal.