First CAC and now PQ

Discussion in 'Coin Chat' started by Iceman444443, Jan 15, 2014.

  1. vlaha

    vlaha Respect. The. Hat.

    I feel that if CAC stickered ICG slabs, it would increase ICG's credibility by a large amount.
     
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  3. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    Probably, but the guy who started CAC is the very same guy who started PCGS and NGC both. So it aint gonna happen.
     
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  4. carboni7e

    carboni7e aka MonsterCoinz

    Personally, I buy the coin not the slab. Whether it's PCGS, ICG, SEGS, CAC or other.
    Just be careful when buying from lower TPG's - they tend to slab lightly cleaned, questionable toned, lightly damaged coins.. at a slightly higher grade than it should be. It makes perfect business sense.
     
  5. rzage

    rzage What Goes Around Comes Around .

    I hear ya Doug , you'd go into 5 shops and get 5 different grades for the same coin , at least if they're in NGC or PCGS slabs they really can't argue much anymore . Also If you bought a coin from some dealer at AU and later decided to trade it he might tell you it's a VF at best and cleaned . I just wish the tpgs would stick to grading coins instead of pricing them .
     
    Last edited: Jan 17, 2014
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  6. mikenoodle

    mikenoodle The Village Idiot Supporter

    larger supply and lower demand would mean lower prices. Both when you buy and when you sell.

    Now, for the hobbyist, this can be a good thing, but remember, we all like it when our coins appreciate, both collector and investor.

    Without the investors, I think that dealers would have more leverage when it comes to buying and selling, and as a collector, I like having a more liquid market. It keeps prices more stable and more accurate to demand.

    As much as I don't like what investors do to my hobby, I like, or at least appreciate what they do for me.

    As to the TPGs, I think that I need to be able to judge coins on my own, but the TPGs also make the market larger and more liquid as they bring more consumers into the market.
     
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  7. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    Or worse.

    Not only can they argue, they still do. And it can be a double edged sword for that scenario. Unscrupulous dealers will dispute the grade to take advantage of you. Trusted and respected dealers who know coins well enough will be able to identify those that have been over-graded, and there's more than few that have been, and they will tell you the truth and only offer what the coin is really worth. Of course you have to have the good sense to believe them or you will think they are merely trying to take advantage of you too - even though they are just being honest.

    In the old days there were dealers you could trust. In today's world, there are dealers you can trust. And in both, there were dealers you could not trust. The key is knowing one from the other. The good guys will tell you when the TPG is right, but they will also tell when the TPG is wrong.

    If you deal with these guys, and just these guys - you don't need the TPG. But since there are far more that don't deal with the good guys than there are that do, the TPGs are helpful for them.
     
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  8. Catbert

    Catbert Evil Cat

    I would add to this discussion that the perception of ICG and ANACs grading to a lower standard than PCGS & NGC is partially due to the more accurately graded coins of the first two have already been crossed to the latter two, leaving behind those coins that "reflect" the lower grading practices. Some also believe this to be true at the next level between NGC and PCGS. I don't subscribe to this theory.
     
  9. C-B-D

    C-B-D Well-Known Member

    Everybody says, "buy the coin, not the holder," but I'll just say that when it's time to sell, "It's PCGS or you lose."
     
  10. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    That would be a mistake, you'd miss out on a whole lot of very nice coins. Many of which, if sent to PCGS, would be upgraded by PCGS.
     
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  11. C-B-D

    C-B-D Well-Known Member

    The current state of things in the online market is that eBuyers want PCGS over anything else. That's ridiculous. But that's a fact.
     
  12. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    That is true of plastic buyers, but not of anyone else. And that is indeed a fact.
     
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  13. ROLLJUNKIE

    ROLLJUNKIE Active Member

    Doesn't it make sense for a TPG to lower their standards each generation? When every coin in the world is slabbed, the only way to continue making money on that coin is upgrades. I'm sure they will continue until the trust of collectors as a whole is broken. Which sounds like the situation the other TPG's are in. I think PCGS and NGC know that they could lower the standards slightly over time without too much backlash. They are in a very powerful position and it seems throughout time, people with power are overcome with greed.
     
    40_mila_kokkina likes this.
  14. geekpryde

    geekpryde Husband and Father Moderator

    Have you been to a coin show? How can you say every coin has been slabbed?

    I think PCGS/NGC ought to reduce their fees for circulated <AU coins to bring some of the cheaper classic coins out of hiding. This is not my idea, I read an article a few months ago suggesting it. I don't think it will ever happen, but it would be great for people like me looking for authenticated and problem-free circulated coins that are on the cheaper side, say <$100 per coin. Right now, this is cost-prohibitive. But there are certainly millions of coins that are still raw.
     
  15. ROLLJUNKIE

    ROLLJUNKIE Active Member

    Are you messing with me? I was being rhetorical. I have thirty five cents in my pocket that isn't slabbed so yeah I'm pretty much aware that not every coin is in a slab.
     
  16. geekpryde

    geekpryde Husband and Father Moderator

    Well, I wasn't trying to mess with you. But I also was not counting coins that have no numismatic value, like your pocket change. There are still tons of fresh raw numismatically valuable coins that could be TPG but have not been yet. I just don't think your argument that standards are being lowered so that people trying to upgrade plastic can be the TPGs primary source of revenue holds much water. Do you really think the TPG are not also busy grading raw coins, and that the only thing left to grade is already slabbed previous generation holder and crossovers? TPG Grading has evolved for sure as Doug has said many times, but Correlation does not imply causation.

    I personally don't collect raw, because I grade coins worse than a blind saki money, so I need the blessing of TPG and CAC. Yes, that is lame. But I also have personally submitted coins to NGC, as have many thousands of others here, and there will be raw coins overwhelming TPG for many years to come.

    Anyway, my point in the previous post was more to highlight this article, not to mess with you.
     
  17. ROLLJUNKIE

    ROLLJUNKIE Active Member

    Well, I guess if I'm the only one to think this could be part of their business model, then my brain is even more sinister than I thought.
     
  18. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    You're far from being the only one.
     
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