Log in or Sign up
Coin Talk
Home
Forums
>
Coin Forums
>
Ancient Coins
>
First 2022 Coin
>
Reply to Thread
Message:
<p>[QUOTE="Bob L., post: 8174212, member: 56976"]John,</p><p><br /></p><p>I don’t know of any direct parallel. This is a stretch, but the only analogous, extended-time visual transformation conducted for – perhaps – political expediency that I can think of, might be the sequence on Parthian drachm reverses, from about the first century AD onwards during the so-called Iranian Revival. We see there, initially, (1) Parthian script starting to appear alongside Greek legends on some coins, followed by (2) the elimination of the epithet “philhellene” (ΦΙΛΕΛΛΗΝΟΣ – meaning Greek-loving) on Parthian coins, then (3) Greek legends becoming garbled to the point of meaninglessness, and (4) depictions of Parthian kings becoming more and more “Iranian” (baggy trousers, long beards, eastern regalia, triparte hairstyles, etc.), along with the move away from Greek naturalism in the depictions.</p><p><br /></p><p>My speculation that the reverse portrait might be the Kamnaskirid Dynasty’s progenitor is perhaps on shaky ground – but it sure makes sense given the visual evidence of extended erasure, doesn’t it? On the other hand, even if, as some believe, the reverse image is that of Herakles, Zeus, Belos, or other mythological figure, I think that the Arsacids must have been threatened by its association with Kamnaskirid rule. Perhaps the god/hero (if that's what he is) was a visual statement about the legitimacy of Kamnaskirid rule? I believe that the accompanying reverse legends, that along with the bust gets degenerated over time, was a carryover from the reverses of the last coins of the Kamnaskirids, and it read" ΒΑΣΙΛΕΩΣ / ΚΑΜΝΑΣΚΙΡΟΥ / ΤΟΥ ΕΓ ΒΑΣΙΛΕΩΣ / ΚΑΜΝΑΣΚΙΡΟΥ, usually interpreted (according to van't Haaff) as "King Kamnaskires, grandson of King Kamnaskires." So, the bust, whether a mythological hero or flesh-and-blood progenitor of the dynasty, seems to have been connected with the lineage of the Kamnaskirids and the legitimacy of their rule. And thus it became a target of the Arsacids, who might well have feared repercussions if they eliminated it immediately upon wresting control of Elymais.</p><p><br /></p><p>Some of my own coins from the Early Arsacid Dynasty in Elymais have reverses that are too worn to tell where they might fall into a possible sequence of degeneration:</p><p>[ATTACH=full]1428272[/ATTACH]</p><p><br /></p><p>Others from my collection, though, are clear enough to imagine a minted order based on the progressive reverse degeneration. This is totally speculative – and, to be clear, I have zero proof of the minting sequence of the tets and drachms I present below. But it’s fun to pretend!</p><p>[ATTACH=full]1428273[/ATTACH][/QUOTE]</p><p><br /></p>
[QUOTE="Bob L., post: 8174212, member: 56976"]John, I don’t know of any direct parallel. This is a stretch, but the only analogous, extended-time visual transformation conducted for – perhaps – political expediency that I can think of, might be the sequence on Parthian drachm reverses, from about the first century AD onwards during the so-called Iranian Revival. We see there, initially, (1) Parthian script starting to appear alongside Greek legends on some coins, followed by (2) the elimination of the epithet “philhellene” (ΦΙΛΕΛΛΗΝΟΣ – meaning Greek-loving) on Parthian coins, then (3) Greek legends becoming garbled to the point of meaninglessness, and (4) depictions of Parthian kings becoming more and more “Iranian” (baggy trousers, long beards, eastern regalia, triparte hairstyles, etc.), along with the move away from Greek naturalism in the depictions. My speculation that the reverse portrait might be the Kamnaskirid Dynasty’s progenitor is perhaps on shaky ground – but it sure makes sense given the visual evidence of extended erasure, doesn’t it? On the other hand, even if, as some believe, the reverse image is that of Herakles, Zeus, Belos, or other mythological figure, I think that the Arsacids must have been threatened by its association with Kamnaskirid rule. Perhaps the god/hero (if that's what he is) was a visual statement about the legitimacy of Kamnaskirid rule? I believe that the accompanying reverse legends, that along with the bust gets degenerated over time, was a carryover from the reverses of the last coins of the Kamnaskirids, and it read" ΒΑΣΙΛΕΩΣ / ΚΑΜΝΑΣΚΙΡΟΥ / ΤΟΥ ΕΓ ΒΑΣΙΛΕΩΣ / ΚΑΜΝΑΣΚΙΡΟΥ, usually interpreted (according to van't Haaff) as "King Kamnaskires, grandson of King Kamnaskires." So, the bust, whether a mythological hero or flesh-and-blood progenitor of the dynasty, seems to have been connected with the lineage of the Kamnaskirids and the legitimacy of their rule. And thus it became a target of the Arsacids, who might well have feared repercussions if they eliminated it immediately upon wresting control of Elymais. Some of my own coins from the Early Arsacid Dynasty in Elymais have reverses that are too worn to tell where they might fall into a possible sequence of degeneration: [ATTACH=full]1428272[/ATTACH] Others from my collection, though, are clear enough to imagine a minted order based on the progressive reverse degeneration. This is totally speculative – and, to be clear, I have zero proof of the minting sequence of the tets and drachms I present below. But it’s fun to pretend! [ATTACH=full]1428273[/ATTACH][/QUOTE]
Your name or email address:
Do you already have an account?
No, create an account now.
Yes, my password is:
Forgot your password?
Stay logged in
Coin Talk
Home
Forums
>
Coin Forums
>
Ancient Coins
>
First 2022 Coin
>
Home
Home
Quick Links
Search Forums
Recent Activity
Recent Posts
Forums
Forums
Quick Links
Search Forums
Recent Posts
Competitions
Competitions
Quick Links
Competition Index
Rules, Terms & Conditions
Gallery
Gallery
Quick Links
Search Media
New Media
Showcase
Showcase
Quick Links
Search Items
Most Active Members
New Items
Directory
Directory
Quick Links
Directory Home
New Listings
Members
Members
Quick Links
Notable Members
Current Visitors
Recent Activity
New Profile Posts
Sponsors
Menu
Search
Search titles only
Posted by Member:
Separate names with a comma.
Newer Than:
Search this thread only
Search this forum only
Display results as threads
Useful Searches
Recent Posts
More...