Finally got a reply after reporting a counterfeit factory to ACEF

Discussion in 'Coin Chat' started by Gam3rBlake, Jul 21, 2021.

  1. Gam3rBlake

    Gam3rBlake Supporter! Supporter

    It’s infuriating that sells replicas of Ancient coins with no “copy” mark anywhere.

    I filed a report with ACEF a few weeks ago and finally heard back from them.

    According to the Hobby Protection Act of 1973 (amended 2014):

    “(b) COINS AND OTHER NUMISMATIC ITEMS.—The manufacture in the United States, or the importation into the United States, for introduction into or distribution in commerce, or the sale in commerce of any imitation numismatic item which is not plainly and permanently marked “copy”, is unlawful and is an unfair or deceptive act or practice in commerce under the Federal Trade Commission Act.”

    Notice it says “any imitation numismatic item” and not just US coins & currency. That means ancients too.

    Do you think they’ll take action?

    Last edited: Jul 21, 2021
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  3. Robert Ransom

    Robert Ransom Well-Known Member

    I see the response as standard boilerplate for the organization, however, actually curbing fakes in a Herculean task that is probably underfunded and understaffed. Will they succeed? Yes to some degree, but not in a meaningful way.
    Copper lover and Gam3rBlake like this.
  4. Gam3rBlake

    Gam3rBlake Supporter! Supporter

    Well I mean there have been stories about them intercepting tens of thousands of slabbed fakes from China destined for the marketplace.

    In my opinion even stopping 10% of counterfeits is still a worthwhile job even if it doesn’t prevent all counterfeits.
  5. Robert Ransom

    Robert Ransom Well-Known Member

    Here is the problem I have with these agencies or whatever they are called: We must rely upon information reported by them as to how effective they are. Also, shut down one operation and another opens in a different location. Here is a scenario which is probably close to the truth. Small company in China creates fakes, finds import source who distributes in the U.S.A. Company identity is made known to China Government and they shut down the business and are told use a new company name and address and continue business as usual, but here in the U.S. the import source is fined and some individuals serve a short sentence. The China Govt. does not really care if fake goods are exported as long as they get their cut of the business. The 10% reduction is only temporary at best and the rise of imports is growing. This is my opinion.
    Gam3rBlake likes this.
  6. Lueds

    Lueds Well-Known Member

    Unfortunately, The Chinese Government has only made it illegal to manufacture Chinese counterfeits. Any other coin from around the world is ok and fair game.

    The government doesn't care, nor will they do anything against any company manufacturing rip offs of genuine articles, as long as they are not Chinese.
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  7. Gam3rBlake

    Gam3rBlake Supporter! Supporter

    I think the Western world should retaliate by faking Chinese stuff.

    It’s so frustrating that China knowingly allows its citizens to rip non-Chinese people off by selling fake stuff.

    Chinese coins can sell for a fortune if they’re the right kind so maybe they should get a taste of their own medicine by flooding their market with fakes.
    serafino and Robert Ransom like this.
  8. Gam3rBlake

    Gam3rBlake Supporter! Supporter

    P.S. It’s also important to note that the importation of fake coins into the US from China is illegal as well.

    Even if the Chinese government allows for them to be exported.

    If the Chinese government refuses to put a halt to it we should just tell them that we’ll deduct it from any debt we owe them. ;)

    They wouldn’t like hearing that all that money we owe them is dwindling away because of their counterfeiters.
    Robert Ransom likes this.
  9. Robert Ransom

    Robert Ransom Well-Known Member

    Good idea and deduct the amount equal to value of the real product.
  10. Gam3rBlake

    Gam3rBlake Supporter! Supporter

    Apparently Microsoft alone estimates losing approximately $10 billion per year due to China counterfeiting & pirating software such as Microsoft Windows.

    I can’t even imagine how much all companies combined are losing.

    It’s just not right. The Chinese government basically encourages its own people to rip off the rest of the world with theft & counterfeiting.

    Then again even the Chinese government does it. That’s why all their modern fighter planes look almost identical to USAF fighter jets from 10-20 years ago.

    Except it cost the US hundreds of billions of dollars to develop the technology and it only cost China a small fraction of that to steal it.
    Robert Ransom likes this.
  11. Gam3rBlake

    Gam3rBlake Supporter! Supporter

    Ironically instead the US is doing the opposite of China.

    They allow Customs & Border control to intercept & confiscate any items from antiquity (including coins) without proper supporting documentation under the reasoning that they could be “looted antiquities”.


    Meanwhile as we intercept & return looted (and legitimate) antiquities to China they flood our market with fake antiquities. o_O
    Robert Ransom likes this.
  12. Robert Ransom

    Robert Ransom Well-Known Member

    And we are the enlightened ones? :rolleyes:
  13. Lueds

    Lueds Well-Known Member

    To be fair to ACTF/ACEF Their " primary mission to educate law enforcement authorities and policy makers and to make them aware of the rising threat of counterfeiting, to mobilize law enforcement to attack counterfeiters where they are most vulnerable, and to provide expertise and other resources in the investigation and prosecution of counterfeiters and those involved at all levels of their distribution networks." Quoted from their website.

    They are essentially an advisory group with Numismatic expertise. They have no authority to do anything, BUT through reports like yours and others they are making a difference in educating the Authorities and getting them to take action, the likes of which wasn't happening very much at all prior to ACTF/ACEF founding in 2017. In 2020 alone they managed to assist in having over $1mil in counterfeits removed from circulation.

    Getting the Secret Service and other Government bodies to act is the challenge that faces all of us. Being proactive and continuing to report these fakirs is where we can help. Contacting your congress representative with your concerns on a regular basis will help keep the spotlight on this issue so that more action will get taken.

    Great post highlighting the challenges we are facing! Continued support of ACTF/ACEF is needed if we are to make a dent in the river of counterfeits flooding into this country
    Gam3rBlake likes this.
  14. Lueds

    Lueds Well-Known Member

    Importation of counterfeit coins from any country into the USA is illegal. China's ultimate aim is to be THE Big boy in town, so they want to destabilize the US economy (As do a number of other communist countries and terrorist organizations). Between dumping cheap imports, tariff controls, counterfeit everything and stealing technology from all around the world, they are slowly succeeding.

    Push back is needed, and some is being given, but the nature of the political beast in this country is such that it is hard to get consensus and a consistent strategy in place to fight what is going on. The US couldn't uphold any financial sanctions against China, the country is too big a powerhouse to just isolate and break down with force.

    Lots of challenges ahead for the US and most of the Western world
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  15. Lueds

    Lueds Well-Known Member

    As 'good' as that sounds, it really only hurts us, the collectors and not China. Importation of coins into China would be fruitless, most of the fakes would be intercepted by the Dictatorial regime. On top of that, it then justifies China and it's actions as we'd be doing the same bad stuff they are
    Gam3rBlake likes this.
  16. Conder101

    Conder101 Numismatist

    And would provide them with free fakes they could than just export back to the US.
    serafino and Lueds like this.
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