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Message:: [QUOTE="Curtis, post: 8252648, member: 26430"]These captives questions are really endlessly interesting to me. I would say it's probably my favorite collecting theme in Roman coinage. There is actually a lot of information being transmitted in the coins (and other Roman art) about the details of how Romans treated captives/slaves/prisoners of war (one of the most important aspects of their economy and foreign/military policy). As you can see, I have lots to say (and even more questions!)... You're definitely right, by the third and fourth centuries (Severan, Constantinian) I think the captives start to become predominantly male, and can often be seen with hands unbound and in the "mouring" pose (same pose that was previously taken by female personifications of Judaea, Gallia, Armenia, Parthia, Dacia (perhaps, I agree there's ambiguity) and others [later edit/note to self: don't forget <a href="https://www.acsearch.info/search.html?term=domitian+aureus+germania+shield" target="_blank" class="externalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="https://www.acsearch.info/search.html?term=domitian+aureus+germania+shield" rel="nofollow">Domitian's Germania AV</a>]). I do think both are probably male on the Septimius. I would say the Septimius (and Caracalla) Parthian captives are more closely based on the original Caesar archetype (like the Titus below) than (directly) on the Vespasian "Judaea Capta." Septimius simply gave both captives the "mourning" pose (as Judaea and Gallia) rather than one mourning, one bound. My recent (ex-Orfew) Titus was sticking closely to the original model, unbound female left, bound male right, but after this period the model began to vary in many directions:[ATTACH=full]1454245[/ATTACH] I think some of the later ones may also show various other bindings (e.g., around the torso or shoulders or legs). It's not altogether clear on these Septimius & Caracalla (below) examples, but the crossed legs, for example, may represent one of the "stress positions" in which the Romans sometimes bound their captives. They also sometimes used bindings that end up looking somewhat like a modern straight-jacket... you can see a bit of it in this little Theodosius AE4 I got for the detailed bindings:[ATTACH=full]1454275[/ATTACH] But where it's possible to see, you're right that the hands often/usually appear unbound during that period. I bought this one because the (both male, I believe) captives' poses are a bit clearer than usual. Hands seem free. One of the early appearances of the one-hand-on-the-chin / one-hand-on-the-ground-behind pose for the right captive, which is also very common on Constantinian ones. Also early appearance of the one-leg-crossed pose (it's such a standard pose, could the elbow be bound to the knee?): [ATTACH=full]1454258[/ATTACH] I'm really curious about what's going on with the right captive's right arm (from his perspective). [EDIT: actually, I think the next sentence is wrong: On the left captive, I think you may be able to see the binding running down his back (more often visible on late 4th cent. captives), but maybe just clothing.] This is my middle Caracalla below: [ATTACH=full]1454242[/ATTACH] [ATTACH=full]1454243[/ATTACH] I suspect some of those squiggly lines on the lower example represent cordage to which the captives are tied but not sure. (The right one may again have his right arm bound to the trophy in back?) Some of my Constantines show one of the captives with hands bound in back, but the other with at least one hand free. Is the hand on the ground meant to be free? You can also see the cross-legged pose again: [ATTACH=full]1454274[/ATTACH] A couple other stress positions on the legs -- kneeling Eastern/Persian (Sassanid or Parthian), and crouching Germanic captives -- with hands bound behind:[ATTACH=full]1454256[/ATTACH]  [ATTACH=full]1454259[/ATTACH] The mid-late 3rd century antoniniani have their own sets of varieties which are also very interesting and worth exploring.[ATTACH=full]1454266[/ATTACH] I also have suspicions that the "grounding line" may not only be an artistic element, but in some designs double as one of the poles to which multiple captives were often bound in ancient cultures... Very grim stuff, but I feel there's a lot left to explore.[/QUOTE]

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