Message:

<p>[QUOTE=&quot;Curtis, post: 8252389, member: 26430&quot;]So I have yet another comment (don&#039;t mean to crowd the thread, but topics I find interesting keep coming up!)...</p><p><br /></p><p><br /></p><p><br /></p><p><br /></p><p><br /></p><p><br /></p><p><br /></p><p><br /></p><p><br /></p><p>This is a tough one, and it also comes up with coins of Lucius Verus / Marcus Aurelius (re: Parthia and Armenia) and then much later in the Licinius through Constantinian seated captives types.</p><p><br /></p><p>As [USER=89687]@ominus1[/USER] says, whether or not the hands are bound is often a strong clue. Beginning with the original archetype for these, the female was depicted &quot;hands free.&quot;</p><p><br /></p><p>I don&#039;t know if I&#039;ve seen any unambiguously-female captives with bound hands? (I.e., on coins; I believe I&#039;ve seen hands-bound female captives on pottery and bronze figurines. I believe there may be males unbound on coins, but haven&#039;t double-checked yet.)</p><p><br /></p><p>Below: Julius Caesar denarius, the first of the trophy and <i>two captives</i> types ever.</p><p><br /></p><p>Previously, RRCs included trophies with a kneeling-bound-male-captive and a seated-bound-male captive (on quinarii mostly), also <a href="https://www.acsearch.info/search.html?id=7385145" target="_blank" class="externalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="https://www.acsearch.info/search.html?id=7385145" rel="nofollow">unbound female personifications</a> and <a href="https://www.acsearch.info/search.html?id=8513264" target="_blank" class="externalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="https://www.acsearch.info/search.html?id=8513264" rel="nofollow">unbound males kneeling in subservience/paying homage</a> to Rome (but I never quite considered those captives).</p><p><br /></p><p>But Vespasian was the first to use a <i>lone female captive</i> next to the trophy:</p><p>[ATTACH=full]1454156[/ATTACH] [ATTACH]1454157[/ATTACH]</p><p>[ATTACH=full]1454158[/ATTACH]</p><p><br /></p><p>The Dacia sitting on the shield certainly appears to have breasts (it&#039;s more obvious on some examples than others, but I see none inconsistent with that interpretation). Unambiguous in this Leu WA 17 example: <a href="https://www.acsearch.info/search.html?id=8418329" target="_blank" class="externalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="https://www.acsearch.info/search.html?id=8418329" rel="nofollow">https://www.acsearch.info/search.html?id=8418329</a> [<b><i>Later EDIT</i></b>: Note to self, Dacia on Shield must be modeled on <a href="https://www.acsearch.info/search.html?term=domitian+aureus+germania+shield" target="_blank" class="externalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="https://www.acsearch.info/search.html?term=domitian+aureus+germania+shield" rel="nofollow">Domitian&#039;s Germania on Shield</a>.]</p><p><br /></p><p>It&#039;s also interesting that she is dressed exactly like the bound male captives, with trousers and tunic and pointed &quot;Dacian cap&quot; (AKA &quot;Phrygian cap&quot;).</p><p><br /></p><p>My type of DACCAP which shows the captive &quot;hands free&quot; seated left highlights [USER=80952]@ambr0zie[/USER]&#039;s question of whether a female personification is ever depicted with arms.</p><p>[ATTACH]1454166[/ATTACH]</p><p><br /></p><p>The Trajan Sestertii of this type are usually identified as Dacia, i.e., female:</p><p>Roma: <a href="https://www.acsearch.info/search.html?id=8944039" target="_blank" class="externalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="https://www.acsearch.info/search.html?id=8944039" rel="nofollow">https://www.acsearch.info/search.html?id=8944039</a></p><p>CNG: <a href="https://www.acsearch.info/search.html?id=7799605" target="_blank" class="externalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="https://www.acsearch.info/search.html?id=7799605" rel="nofollow">https://www.acsearch.info/search.html?id=7799605</a></p><p>(Though, notably, Heritage tends to identify them as &quot;Dacian captives&quot;: <a href="https://www.acsearch.info/search.html?id=8123125" target="_blank" class="externalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="https://www.acsearch.info/search.html?id=8123125" rel="nofollow">https://www.acsearch.info/search.html?id=8123125</a>)</p><p><br /></p><p>On the denarius, at least, most dealers seem to avoid the question by using &quot;Dacian&quot; without gender-specific pronouns.</p><p><br /></p><p>But this denarius example -- cited by Leu as &quot;Dacia&quot; and using &quot;her&quot; -- does look more female to me: <a href="https://www.acsearch.info/search.html?id=8908097" target="_blank" class="externalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="https://www.acsearch.info/search.html?id=8908097" rel="nofollow">https://www.acsearch.info/search.html?id=8908097</a></p><p><br /></p><p>On balance, I think the unbound-left captive (like mine) is <i>probably</i> female. Looking for more examples....[/QUOTE]</p><p><br /></p>

Your name or email address:

Do you already have an account?

• No, create an account now.
• Yes, my password is:
• Forgot your password?

Stay logged in