FedEx lost my coins.

Have you ever heard of a synallagmatic contract? By extension it becomes a mutual agreement to perform. A contract in which the parties obligate themselves reciprocally so that the obligation of each party is correlative to the obligation of the other. Therefore the extension by Heritage to Fed Ex applies and thus assumes the obligation to perform.

 

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Still though the lesson we must all learn here is pay with a credit card when dealing with online retailers. I had the good fortune of forcing a company (Woot.com) to do right by me or take on a major bank. Woot.com are known for not doing returns. As you know they fixed the problem instead of taking on the bank. No retailer wants to be banned from the ability to take credit cards.

 

you watched the coulds you said i have a few i would like you to watch

 

Just a point of fact, coins are a restricted/prohibited shipping item with both UPS and FedEx. Unless the coin dealer/house has a special contract that supersedes the general provisions for service. In any case, it is Heritage's responsibility to make sure that the item gets to you. If they do not have a special contract with FedEx, negotiation with Heritage will be much easier. If Heritage causes problems and forces this into court, make sure your attorney goes for fees and treble damages, as well as any State or Federal statutory damages that may apply in your case.

 

coins are not restricted or prohibited by USPS. on the contrary USPS is one of the only carriers you can use to ship coins without a special contract

 

Thanks For All The Replys

I think at this point I need to get an attorney. There are so many differing views as to who is responsible. Coin talk is what it is and I thank everyone for thier help and advice. In this case I can't afford to take anecdotal advice. It looks like I have a long roe to hoe. I can do two things. Sit on my $$$ and hope for the best or retain a competant attorney. I think i will opt for the latter. This is a very novel situation I find myself in. I think I would be stupid to think I should deal with this on my own. I have all I can do to continue to be polite with FedEX and Heritage. If I continue to do this on my own I may become a little less polite.

 

you have to do what you feel is right. best of luck. 13 k is not a lot of money to heritage or even to big dealers/collectors but i can totally understand where you are coming from just make sure you dont pay the attorney a lot

 

Richard,


This is from the "terms and conditions" right under the sign-in for HA.com. I really don't know how this would be accomplished by a buyer. But it is a concern. After reading this I would not consider bidding on any lots if it can be inforced in your case.


31. Title shall not pass to the successful Bidder until all invoices are paid in full. It is the responsibility of the buyer to provide adequate insurance coverage for the items once they have been delivered to a common carrier or third-party shipper.

Jim

 

wow then whats the shipping for?

 

I mentioned this situation to a family member who is a retired UPS employee, and he had a similar view on the situation.
As for the insurance, he told me that he didn't think UPS or FEDEX WOULD insure a package for 13k.

 

I agree. And, I believe, that in my state anything over $500 is a felony. So I would think 13 grand certainly is just about anywhere.

 

Richard, I think getting an attorney is probably a wise decision. I wish you the best of luck.

 

Thanks For The Info

I won the coins and was given an invoice for the coin totals, buyers premium, and shipping. Any reasonable person would believe that the coins were insured. I will give Heritage the benefit of the doubt. But If they don't compensate me they will end up in court. I'm sure I will prevail and will collect all attorneys fees and court costs. I will also go to the local media in my town so they can do a consumer report regarding online auctions. I will go to my my local bank branch and dispute the wire transfer. In my town the local news channels do nothing but cover scams and the victims of the scams. While this was not a scam, i'm sure it will get enough viewers to make it worth their while to do a story on it(It sure beats the last one that covered a married couple that paid 5K for driveway repair that was not done to thier satisfaction.) If they want a fight it will be one that I will win. It was thier responsibility to get the coins to me. They did not do so. I will fight to the end and win. In the end it will cost them much more in legal fees not to mention the damage to thier reputation and the reputation of all online auction houses. All they had to do was properly insure the items. They did not even offer me the option to insure the items. They are in the wrong and I am in the right and will prove it. I won't just sit back and eat this. Thanks for all the advice and I will keep you all posted.

 

Now this is another issue. If there are disclaimers or contractual conditions that apply, they certainly would have applicable merit in placing potential liability. Is this Heritages disclaimer? I'd be sure to acknowledge this in the future when i would be purchasing items. Good find.

 

Boy it gets hazy and maybe I misunderstood the 3rd party shipping thing,

Here is from their "Shipping charges" page

If the Shipping Description on the item page says "3rd party Shipping", then the successful bidder is responsible to arrange pick-up, shipping, and insurance through third parties. After the auction ends, the winner notification e-mail will include instructions for selecting a carrier and arranging product release to the selected carrier.

and this

NOTE: Our shipping charges include shipping, handling and private carrier insurance. Shipping varies according to the item type, quantity, and value (for insurance purposes). Certain packages may cost more to ship and insure and you may be contacted if there are additional costs after receipt of shipment. All charges are based on shipping within the continental United States, and shipments to other areas will likely incur a higher charge.

Here it says :

: Base Shipping Cost For All (includes private carrier insurance) Invoice Total If Mailed to Street Address Up to $99 $7.20 $100 - $199 $10.00 $200 - $999 $12.80 $1000 - $2499 $18.30 $2500 - $3499 $21.40 $3500 - $4999 $24.20 $5000 - $9999 $28.30 $10000 - $14999 $31.40 $15000 - $24999 $37.80 $25000 + $42.60 + $0.65 per additional thousand

Plus
Coins & Currency $1.15 first item + $0.45 per additional item

So if they charged you 31.40 + 1.15 + .45 for each additional, then the insurance was included and you have excellent redress.

So Richard, if the item page doesn't say 3rd party shipping, you should be better protected. This confusion is what occurs when there are so many "gotchas"..and I always thought eBay was bad.

Jim

 

There is such a thing as making a disclaimer and making a disclaimer that is not in conflict with State Revised Statutes. My company could make any contractual disclaimer but if that disclaimer violates state statutes, it becomes invalid and over ridden by rule of law. It's up to the claimant to establish and prove his issue.

 

Adam, I have personally delivered pkgs. that were in excess of 20k (jewelry). Those pkgs. were handled a little differently than the usual high value items. As for the F'ers, I don't know.

 

Information

Hate to tell you this but FedEx considers items with "high intrinsic value" to only be insured for 25.USD not 100.USD. Companies know this and when sending such items (ie.computers,jewelry,coins..etc.) they have their own insurance. So the statement that 'Heritage..might take care of you', is at best an alarm sounding. You may have been duped. When FedEx gets a package that has been set up (by the shipper) to require a signature, it is an automatic 'firing offense' should it be ignored. The equiptment FedEx uses does not allow this to happen so it must be bypassed by the courier involved directly, or the package was not set up that way to begin with. The only recourse you would have is with Heritage only. You (yourself) will probably not get anything from FedEx since you are not the shipper. There seems to be more to this story then you're telling, possibly a 'TOO GOOD TO BE TRUE' scenario

 

I'm amazed that this could happen. I had a box coming by UPS one time that was worth $150. Said online it was delivered to my door. Never got it. Filed a dispute. The company sent out the products again. 3 months later, a stranger knocks on my door and he's got a box. Ended up, the box was left at a vacant house where they guy only lives there part of the year. He came home, the box was there and he brought it to me. 3 months later.

After that, UPS wouldn't leave anything at my door and wanted me to sign for everything. It took a long time just to get them to leave stuff in my garage. This story is really shocking to me. I can't believe how careless Heritage was in shipping this. And then I can't believe somebody would get the package and just keep it. You know there's a receipt and a name in there. I guess you're just playing the odds with what kind of scum bag ends up receiving it.

If the package was only insured for $100, than that is what the delivery guy saw and sure enough, that'll get left at a door. I blame this on Heritage for not letting the shipper know the value of the box so the proper care could have been taken. This is all on Heritage. It's their job to ship this to you properly. Not yours.

 

The weird thing is that when I get a fed ex package I have to drive about 15 miles to go pick it up. They will never leave it without a sig even if I request that.