Faustina II Sestertius - Ceres Seated with Torch. Help Please.

Discussion in 'Ancient Coins' started by Marsyas Mike, Mar 13, 2020.

  1. Marsyas Mike

    Marsyas Mike Well-Known Member

    My new sestertius of Faustina II is confusing me. I think it is RIC 1620, but I am not entirely sure (again, my lack of RIC is showing).

    From what I have found, there are several types of FII sestertius with Ceres seated holding corn-ears and a torch. The confusion comes when looking at attributions - OCRE is somewhat vague. Vcoins and acsearch auctions are not in agreement.

    Here are the reverse "points" that seem to vary (and bring about RIC variations):

    Torch: Ceres holds a short or a long torch. The long torch goes to the ground, the other does not.

    Plants: In her other hand, Ceres holds two grain ears, or, two grain ears with a poppy flower in the middle.

    Per OCRE, these variations cover RIC 1620-1624. However, OCRE, in what I am finding to be a typical muddle, describes the poppy in one (RIC 1623) and shows it in another (RIC 1622) but doesn't mention the poppy (and describes a long torch, although it is clearly shows a short torch in the photo).

    http://numismatics.org/ocre/results...na+II"+AND+fulltext:torch+AND+fulltext:seated

    Mine doesn't show the poppy and has a short torch, so I am fairly sure mine is RIC 1620 (this is in agreement with Wildwinds (which has no other seated Ceres types).

    Here is mine (24.87 grams, 27 x 30 mm):

    Faustina II - Sestertius Ceres seated Mar 2020 (0).jpg

    Any help would be appreciated. RC, are you out there?
     
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  3. Roman Collector

    Roman Collector Well-Known Member

    I'm at work but am excited to research this when I get home!
     
  4. Justin Lee

    Justin Lee I learn by doing

    giphy (1).gif
     
  5. Marsyas Mike

    Marsyas Mike Well-Known Member

    RC is kind of the Faustina Batman. I hope he takes this as a compliment.

    But really, Coin Talk is loaded with Batmans who constantly come to my rescue. Thank you all!
     
  6. Roman Collector

    Roman Collector Well-Known Member

    I find it interesting that the two variants of this sestertius are given separate numbers in RIC but the denarius versions are given the same number. I discussed this in an earlier thread.

    Yours is RIC 1620, with an earlier hairstyle with a double strand of pearls as well as a short, transverse scepter. RIC does not comment on the hairstyle, but I note that the late hairstyle is found on RIC 1621 and the earlier on 1620. Here's the listing in RIC:

    Capture.JPG

    I don't have an example of either of these in my collection, but the British Museum does. Here are their examples of 1620, BMCRE3 895 and 896:

    00667377_001_l.jpg
    00667378_001_l.jpg

    And here is their example of RIC 1921, BMCRE3 894:

    00667376_001_l.jpg

    Here are the denarius versions of the coins from my collection:

    Earlier issue (despite having the same RIC number):
    Faustina Jr CERES denarius type 1.jpg

    Later issue:

    Faustina Jr CERES denarius type 2.jpg

    We know this is the later hairstyle, because that's the coiffure she has on her posthumous issues:

    Faustina Jr CONSECRATIO Peacock denarius.jpg

    Faustina Jr CONSECRATIO S C flying peacock sestertius.jpg
     
    Last edited: Mar 14, 2020
  7. Marsyas Mike

    Marsyas Mike Well-Known Member

    Thank you so much for that thorough reply, RC. It is good to get an RIC confirmation after my Online flubbing about.

    I am still learning to differentiate the FII hairstyles - some of my problem comes from the low-grade specimens I tend to accumulate. The illustrations you posted are most helpful.

    Here is another photo, not quite so over-exposed as in my OP:

    Faustina II - Sestertius Ceres seated Mar 2020 (0a).jpg

    Faustina II Æ Sestertius
    (161- 176 A.D.)
    Rome Mint

    FAVSTINA AVGVSTA, draped bust right / CER[ES] S-C, Ceres seated left on cista,
    holding two corn-ears and (short) lighted torch.
    RIC 1620; Cohen 36.
    (24.87 grams / 30 x 27 mm)
     
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  8. Roman Collector

    Roman Collector Well-Known Member

    The chronology of the hairstyles on the ones issued under Antoninus Pius is easier to establish, because we have a decent idea of when the various obverse inscriptions were in use. Strack's dating for the various issues are as follows:

    1. FAVSTINAE AVG PII AVG FIL / [± descriptive] 147-149
    2. FAVSTINA AVG ANTONINI AVG PII FIL / descriptive 149-152
    3a-b. FAVSTINA AVG PII AVG FIL / [± descriptive] 152-156
    4a-b. FAVSTINA AVGVSTA AVG[VSTI] PII F[IL] / [± descriptive] 152-156
    5. FAVSTINA AVGVSTA / AVGVSTI PII FIL 156-161

    Mattingly's dates are a bit different, so don't think these dates are known with certainty.

    Dating her coins under Marcus Aurelius is trickier, because the coins aren't dated. We know the last one, because it's continued on the posthumous issues, and we know the one she wore in AD 161, when her father died and her husband took over issuing coins in her name.

    This is the hairstyle she wore in AD 161. She had been wearing this hairstyle for several years already:

    Under Antoninus Pius:

    Faustina Jr PVDICITIA sacrificing denarius.jpg
    Faustina II, Augusta AD 147-175, issued under Antoninus Pius
    Roman AR denarius; 2.82 g, 17 mm, 6 h
    Rome, AD 152-156.
    Obv: FAVSTINA AVGVSTA AVG PII F, bare-headed and draped bust right
    Rev: PVDICITIA, Pudicitia standing left, sacrificing over lit altar to left
    Refs: RIC 508a; BMCRE 1092; Cohen 184; Strack 513; RCV 4707; CRE 207; Dinsdale 030550.

    Faustina Jr AVGVSTI PII FIL Venus denarius.jpg
    Faustina II, AD 147-175/6.
    Roman AR denarius, 3.27 g, 17.8 mm, 7 h.
    Rome, AD 156-161.
    Obv: FAVSTINA AVGVSTA, bare-headed and draped bust, right.
    Rev: AVGVSTA PII FIL, Venus standing left, holding Victory on right hand and resting left hand on shield set on helmet.
    Refs: RIC 495a; BMCRE 1099-1101; Cohen/RSC 15; Strack 519; RCV 4700; CRE 224.

    ~~~

    Under Marcus Aurelius (date fairly well established because we know when many of Faustina's children were born*):

    Faustina Jr FECVND AVGVSTAE denarius 2.jpg
    Faustina Junior, Augusta AD 147-176
    Roman AR denarius, 3.41 g, 18.1 mm, 12:00
    Rome, AD 161.
    Obv: FAVSTINA AVGVSTA, bare-headed and draped bust, right.
    Rev: FECVND AVGVSTAE, Fecunditas facing, head left, between two children (thought to represent Faustina III and Lucilla), holding two more in hand (thought to represent Fadilla and Cornificia).
    Refs: RIC 676; BMCRE 89; Cohen 95; Strack 520e; RCV 5251; CRE 178; Dinsdale 005120.

    Faustina Jr SAECVLI FELICIT Denarius RIC 711.jpg
    Faustina Junior, Augusta AD 147-176.
    Roman AR denarius, 3.22 g, 17.0 mm, 12:00.
    Rome, AD 161/2.
    Obv: FAVSTINA AVGVSTA, bare-headed and draped bust, right.
    Rev: SAECVLI FELICIT, Throne, upon which are seated two infant boys, Commodus and Antoninus.
    Refs: RIC 711; BMCRE 136; Cohen 191; RCV 5260 var. (no diadem); CRE 221; Dinsdale 005590.

    The other hairstyles all fall in the "mid 160s to early 170s" category.

    ~~~

    *Annia Aurelia Galeria Faustina (called Faustina III; some sources call her Domitia Faustina. It's confusing) was born November 30, 147 AD. Lucilla was born in AD 148/9 or in 150; Annia Aurelia Fadilla, most commonly known as Fadilla, was born in AD 159; Annia Cornificia Faustina Minor was born in AD 160; the twins Titus Aurelius Fulvius Antoninus and Lucius Aurelius Commodus were born in 161/2.
     
    Last edited: Mar 14, 2020
  9. Marsyas Mike

    Marsyas Mike Well-Known Member


    A very useful post - it has been pdf'd into my permanent reference files. Thanks again, RC. You outta write a book.
     
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