Log in or Sign up
Coin Talk
Home
Forums
>
Coin Forums
>
Ancient Coins
>
Far-Out Faustina Fourrée?
>
Reply to Thread
Message:
<p>[QUOTE="Roman Collector, post: 4592765, member: 75937"]At first, this denarius of Faustina I seems unremarkable, but its existence is fascinating and raises more questions than it answers. I'd love to hear your thoughts, and by all means, post anything you feel is relevant!</p><p><br /></p><p>[ATTACH=full]1137160[/ATTACH]</p><p>Faustina I, AD 138-140.</p><p>Unofficial imitative issue?, 3.19 g, 17.6 mm, 6 h.</p><p>Ca. AD 140-160?</p><p>Obv: DIVA FAVSTINA, bare-headed and draped bust, right.</p><p>Rev: PIETATI(?) AVG, Pietas, veiled and draped, standing left, dropping incense from right hand onto lighted altar and holding box in left hand.</p><p>Refs: Cf. BMC p. 67, † note, RSC 234b, CRE 113 and Strack 462 (Budapest), all of which read PIETAS AVG.</p><p><br /></p><p><b>Is this a fourrée imitation or a solid silver, official issue?</b></p><p><br /></p><p>If this is an official issue, it must read PIETAS AVG, for no coins with a PIETATI AVG reverse legend and a standing figure sacrificing over an altar appear until the reign of Pescennius Niger. Many coins depicting Pietas were issued for Faustina I after her death, and this coin superficially resembles <a href="https://www.britishmuseum.org/collection/object/C_R-13136" target="_blank" class="externalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="https://www.britishmuseum.org/collection/object/C_R-13136" rel="nofollow">RIC 394a/BMC 311-314</a>, but that coin has the obverse inscription, DIVA AVG FAVSTINA, whereas the obverse on this coin bears the later DIVA FAVSTINA inscription. The coin with this combination of obverse legend and reverse type is extremely rare. An exhaustive internet and print search revealed only the following three examples (the first two are die-matches):</p><p><br /></p><p>[ATTACH=full]1137168[/ATTACH]</p><p>Gorny & Mosch Giessener Münzhandlung Auction 181, 13.10.2009, <a href="https://www.acsearch.info/search.html?id=678241" target="_blank" class="externalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="https://www.acsearch.info/search.html?id=678241" rel="nofollow">lot 2210</a> (3.25 g).</p><p><br /></p><p>[ATTACH=full]1137171[/ATTACH]</p><p>Macho & Chlapovič <a href="https://machochlapovic.com/storage/import/catalogues/auction-2-catalogue.pdf" target="_blank" class="externalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="https://machochlapovic.com/storage/import/catalogues/auction-2-catalogue.pdf" rel="nofollow">Auction 2, 28.4.2012</a>, lot 70 (2.6 g).</p><p><br /></p><p>[ATTACH=full]1137172[/ATTACH]Temeryazev, S. A., and T. P. Makarenko. <i>The Coinage of Roman Empresses, </i>113, pp. 48-49.</p><p><br /></p><p>So, if the coin reads PIETAS AVG and if genuine, it would be rare indeed. Unfortunately, my coin is not a die match to either of these examples, which would clarify the reverse inscription and argue for its authenticity.</p><p><br /></p><p>If the reverse inscription reads the dative-case PIETATI AVG, then it must be an imitation/forgery. Denarii bearing the PIETATI AVG reverse legend are few and far between. The <i>only</i> coin issued with a PIETATI AVG legend in combination with a sacrificing figure on the reverse is a rare denarius of Pescennius Niger bearing the togate figure of the emperor sacrificing, not the female personification of piety, Pietas:</p><p><br /></p><p>[ATTACH=full]1137181[/ATTACH]</p><p>Pescennius Niger, Antioch mint, RIC 68, <a href="https://www.britishmuseum.org/collection/object/C_1844-0425-1319" target="_blank" class="externalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="https://www.britishmuseum.org/collection/object/C_1844-0425-1319" rel="nofollow">BMC 311</a>, p.79.</p><p><br /></p><p>[ATTACH=full]1137182[/ATTACH]Timeline Auctions, 26.02.2019, <a href="https://www.acsearch.info/search.html?id=5738393" target="_blank" class="externalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="https://www.acsearch.info/search.html?id=5738393" rel="nofollow">lot 3029</a>.</p><p><br /></p><p>These coins of Niger are die-matches to each other and clearly very different from the reverse of my coin.</p><p><br /></p><p>So, if my coin is an imitation and reads PIETATI AVG, there appears to have been no coin ever issued to have served as an exemplar for the reverse!</p><p><br /></p><p><b>Factors supporting the coin is an official issue:</b></p><p><br /></p><ul> <li>The coin is of proper weight, 3.27 g, such as the Gorny & Mosch example.</li> <li>The reverse inscription isn't entirely clear and may well read PIETAS AVG.</li> <li>No coin was issued with PIETATI AVG that could have served as an exemplar for an imitative reverse die.<br /> </li> <li>The areas on the coin's reverse between the letters AV, and around the left hand holding the box may be patches of reddish-brown corrosion on the surface of the silver near an area of flan lamination and not an exposed base-metal core.</li> </ul><p><br /></p><p>[ATTACH=full]1137187[/ATTACH]</p><p><br /></p><p><b>Factors supporting the coin is an imitation:</b></p><p><br /></p><ul> <li>Weight is not a reliable indicator of authenticity.</li> <li>The style of the obverse portrait is somewhat crude.<br /> </li> <li>Try as I might to see PIETAS, it really looks like it says PIETATI.</li> <li>Try as I might to see a lamination flaw, it really looks like a crack in the plating between PIETAS' hand and the A in AVG, exposing a base-metal core.</li> </ul><p><br /></p><p><b>My wish list vis-à-vis this coin:</b></p><p><br /></p><ul> <li>Die-matched examples would come to light to clarify the reverse inscription and whether or not it's fourrée in manufacture.</li> <li>Experts, such as [USER=89514]@curtislclay[/USER] and [USER=79368]@Barry Murphy[/USER] might weigh in.</li> <li>I'd like to see the example in the Budapest Nationalmuseum cited by Strack.</li> </ul><p>[/QUOTE]</p><p><br /></p>
[QUOTE="Roman Collector, post: 4592765, member: 75937"]At first, this denarius of Faustina I seems unremarkable, but its existence is fascinating and raises more questions than it answers. I'd love to hear your thoughts, and by all means, post anything you feel is relevant! [ATTACH=full]1137160[/ATTACH] Faustina I, AD 138-140. Unofficial imitative issue?, 3.19 g, 17.6 mm, 6 h. Ca. AD 140-160? Obv: DIVA FAVSTINA, bare-headed and draped bust, right. Rev: PIETATI(?) AVG, Pietas, veiled and draped, standing left, dropping incense from right hand onto lighted altar and holding box in left hand. Refs: Cf. BMC p. 67, † note, RSC 234b, CRE 113 and Strack 462 (Budapest), all of which read PIETAS AVG. [B]Is this a fourrée imitation or a solid silver, official issue?[/B] If this is an official issue, it must read PIETAS AVG, for no coins with a PIETATI AVG reverse legend and a standing figure sacrificing over an altar appear until the reign of Pescennius Niger. Many coins depicting Pietas were issued for Faustina I after her death, and this coin superficially resembles [URL='https://www.britishmuseum.org/collection/object/C_R-13136']RIC 394a/BMC 311-314[/URL], but that coin has the obverse inscription, DIVA AVG FAVSTINA, whereas the obverse on this coin bears the later DIVA FAVSTINA inscription. The coin with this combination of obverse legend and reverse type is extremely rare. An exhaustive internet and print search revealed only the following three examples (the first two are die-matches): [ATTACH=full]1137168[/ATTACH] Gorny & Mosch Giessener Münzhandlung Auction 181, 13.10.2009, [URL='https://www.acsearch.info/search.html?id=678241']lot 2210[/URL] (3.25 g). [ATTACH=full]1137171[/ATTACH] Macho & Chlapovič [URL='https://machochlapovic.com/storage/import/catalogues/auction-2-catalogue.pdf']Auction 2, 28.4.2012[/URL], lot 70 (2.6 g). [ATTACH=full]1137172[/ATTACH]Temeryazev, S. A., and T. P. Makarenko. [I]The Coinage of Roman Empresses, [/I]113, pp. 48-49. So, if the coin reads PIETAS AVG and if genuine, it would be rare indeed. Unfortunately, my coin is not a die match to either of these examples, which would clarify the reverse inscription and argue for its authenticity. If the reverse inscription reads the dative-case PIETATI AVG, then it must be an imitation/forgery. Denarii bearing the PIETATI AVG reverse legend are few and far between. The [I]only[/I] coin issued with a PIETATI AVG legend in combination with a sacrificing figure on the reverse is a rare denarius of Pescennius Niger bearing the togate figure of the emperor sacrificing, not the female personification of piety, Pietas: [ATTACH=full]1137181[/ATTACH] Pescennius Niger, Antioch mint, RIC 68, [URL='https://www.britishmuseum.org/collection/object/C_1844-0425-1319']BMC 311[/URL], p.79. [ATTACH=full]1137182[/ATTACH]Timeline Auctions, 26.02.2019, [URL='https://www.acsearch.info/search.html?id=5738393']lot 3029[/URL]. These coins of Niger are die-matches to each other and clearly very different from the reverse of my coin. So, if my coin is an imitation and reads PIETATI AVG, there appears to have been no coin ever issued to have served as an exemplar for the reverse! [B]Factors supporting the coin is an official issue:[/B] [LIST] [*]The coin is of proper weight, 3.27 g, such as the Gorny & Mosch example. [*]The reverse inscription isn't entirely clear and may well read PIETAS AVG. [*]No coin was issued with PIETATI AVG that could have served as an exemplar for an imitative reverse die. [*]The areas on the coin's reverse between the letters AV, and around the left hand holding the box may be patches of reddish-brown corrosion on the surface of the silver near an area of flan lamination and not an exposed base-metal core. [/LIST] [ATTACH=full]1137187[/ATTACH] [B]Factors supporting the coin is an imitation:[/B] [LIST] [*]Weight is not a reliable indicator of authenticity. [*]The style of the obverse portrait is somewhat crude. [*]Try as I might to see PIETAS, it really looks like it says PIETATI. [*]Try as I might to see a lamination flaw, it really looks like a crack in the plating between PIETAS' hand and the A in AVG, exposing a base-metal core. [/LIST] [B]My wish list vis-à-vis this coin:[/B] [LIST] [*]Die-matched examples would come to light to clarify the reverse inscription and whether or not it's fourrée in manufacture. [*]Experts, such as [USER=89514]@curtislclay[/USER] and [USER=79368]@Barry Murphy[/USER] might weigh in. [*]I'd like to see the example in the Budapest Nationalmuseum cited by Strack. [/LIST][/QUOTE]
Your name or email address:
Do you already have an account?
No, create an account now.
Yes, my password is:
Forgot your password?
Stay logged in
Coin Talk
Home
Forums
>
Coin Forums
>
Ancient Coins
>
Far-Out Faustina Fourrée?
>
Home
Home
Quick Links
Search Forums
Recent Activity
Recent Posts
Forums
Forums
Quick Links
Search Forums
Recent Posts
Competitions
Competitions
Quick Links
Competition Index
Rules, Terms & Conditions
Gallery
Gallery
Quick Links
Search Media
New Media
Showcase
Showcase
Quick Links
Search Items
Most Active Members
New Items
Directory
Directory
Quick Links
Directory Home
New Listings
Members
Members
Quick Links
Notable Members
Current Visitors
Recent Activity
New Profile Posts
Sponsors
Menu
Search
Search titles only
Posted by Member:
Separate names with a comma.
Newer Than:
Search this thread only
Search this forum only
Display results as threads
Useful Searches
Recent Posts
More...