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<p>[QUOTE=&quot;Victor_Clark, post: 2780821, member: 10613&quot;]this is a book review I did on a book written about this topic, it&#039;s fairly long though.&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; </p><p><br /></p><p><br /></p><p>&nbsp;<i>The End of the Roman Empire</i> is a small book that looked at the historiography of a big debate—“Why did the Roman Empire in the West collapse?” The editor of this book, Donald Kagan, is actually a historian specializing in ancient Greece. Kagan took excerpts from historians that have written on the fall of the Western Roman Empire. He divided the book into three sections. The first section, the Problem of Decline and Fall Stated, was actually an attempt to define the problem. The second section, The Causes, listed some of the many problems that various historians have said caused the fall of the West. The third section, Decline, Transformation, or Fall, attempted to answer if the West actually fell, or if it only transformed into something else.</p><p><br /></p><p>&nbsp; The first section began with Michael Rostovtzeff. He said that the decay of Roman civilization had two aspects. The first aspect was political, social and economic. The second aspect was intellectual and spiritual. Politically, there was “a gradual barbarization of the Empire from within.”<a href="https://www.cointalk.com/file:///D:/Medieval_Germans/Kagan/Kagan.doc#_edn1" class="internalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="https://www.cointalk.com/file:///D:/Medieval_Germans/Kagan/Kagan.doc#_edn1"></a><i> The Germans replaced the ruling classes of Rome, so the real question might be, “why was Italy unable (or unwilling) to assimilate the Germans?”<a href="https://www.cointalk.com/file:///D:/Medieval_Germans/Kagan/Kagan.doc#_edn2" class="internalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="https://www.cointalk.com/file:///D:/Medieval_Germans/Kagan/Kagan.doc#_edn2">[ii]</a> Frank William Walbank said that because of light thrown on new evidence, it was possible to analyze the “course of decay in the Roman world with a high degree of objectivity.”<a href="https://www.cointalk.com/file:///D:/Medieval_Germans/Kagan/Kagan.doc#_edn3" class="internalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="https://www.cointalk.com/file:///D:/Medieval_Germans/Kagan/Kagan.doc#_edn3">[iii]</a>&nbsp; The third excerpt in this section was from A. H. M. Jones. Jones pointed out that the East did not collapse and suggested that historians needed to look at how the East differed from the West, when attempting to analyze the Fall.</i></p><p><i><br /></i></p><p><i>&nbsp; The second section was the core of the book—the causes of the Fall. J. B. Bury dismissed several causes for the Fall, such as depopulation and lack of manpower, and religion. Bury pointed out that Christians believed in just war, so historians should not blame Christianity for the Fall. Rather, Bury said the Fall was “a series of contingent events.”<a href="https://www.cointalk.com/file:///D:/Medieval_Germans/Kagan/Kagan.doc#_edn4" class="internalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="https://www.cointalk.com/file:///D:/Medieval_Germans/Kagan/Kagan.doc#_edn4">[iv]</a> The events were the Huns, the defeat of Valens, Rome allowing the Goths to settle in the Empire, and a feeble-minded boy ruling in the West. The biggest problem, according to Bury, was a decline in the military spirit of Romans. Gibbon was up next, and his opinion was generally one of decay. Rome had been in decline for many years. In the times of the Roman Republic, every citizen took an oath to serve his country. Rome was “sometimes vanquished in battle, always victorious in war.”<a href="https://www.cointalk.com/file:///D:/Medieval_Germans/Kagan/Kagan.doc#_edn5" class="internalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="https://www.cointalk.com/file:///D:/Medieval_Germans/Kagan/Kagan.doc#_edn5">[v]</a> Gibbon also disliked the Eastern Empire. He said that the Byzantine Empire watched the misfortunes of Italy “with indifference, perhaps with pleasure.”<a href="https://www.cointalk.com/file:///D:/Medieval_Germans/Kagan/Kagan.doc#_edn6" class="internalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="https://www.cointalk.com/file:///D:/Medieval_Germans/Kagan/Kagan.doc#_edn6">[vi]</a> Gibbon also believed that Christianity helped to cause the collapse, but the Eastern Empire that survived was also Christian. The Crusades also proved that Christianity could create highly motivated warriors! Michael Rostovtzeff looked at the problem from a Marxist viewpoint. There was constant civil war and many external foes, but the civil strife was the key problem. Upper class Romans destroyed the middle class and the masses of people “had little share in the brilliant civilized life of the Empire.”<a href="https://www.cointalk.com/file:///D:/Medieval_Germans/Kagan/Kagan.doc#_edn7" class="internalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="https://www.cointalk.com/file:///D:/Medieval_Germans/Kagan/Kagan.doc#_edn7">[vii]</a>&nbsp; There was also antagonism between the cities and the countryside. The soldiers sided with the peasantry. Rostovtzeff summed up by saying that the crisis was definitely social in character. F. W. Walbank said the problem was more of a technological issue. Italy had no new productive forces. Hieron of Athens made many clever inventions that Greece only used to trick people at the temples. Rome, the inheritor of Greek inventions, also did not come up with any new technologies, or better uses for existing technologies. Slavery was also a problem that linked with this problem. Countless slaves toiled for the wealthy landowners. Society was divided into two classes with conflicting interests. Slaves were not interested in coming up with innovative techniques and Romans did not worry because they had slaves to do the work. It was “the complete stagnation of technique.”<a href="https://www.cointalk.com/file:///D:/Medieval_Germans/Kagan/Kagan.doc#_edn8" class="internalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="https://www.cointalk.com/file:///D:/Medieval_Germans/Kagan/Kagan.doc#_edn8">[viii]</a> Ultimately, low technique and the institution of slavery caused the Fall of the Roman Empire. Salvian the Presbyter, who wrote circa 440 A. D., said that the real problem was taxation. Romans under the rule of barbarians were happier and did not want to escape. G. E. M. de Ste. Croix argued that some emperors did show concern for the peasants, because they did not want to ruin them completely. Emperors needed peasants for taxation and a possible source for the army.<a href="https://www.cointalk.com/file:///D:/Medieval_Germans/Kagan/Kagan.doc#_edn9" class="internalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="https://www.cointalk.com/file:///D:/Medieval_Germans/Kagan/Kagan.doc#_edn9">[ix]</a> The empire actually needed an emperor, or at least a competent one. The causes of the Fall were economic and social.</i></p><p><i><br /></i></p><p><i>&nbsp; Michael Grant said that the Fall happened because of outside invasion and internal weakness. Grant had thirteen defects, which displayed “a unifying thread, the thread of disunity.”<a href="https://www.cointalk.com/file:///D:/Medieval_Germans/Kagan/Kagan.doc#_edn10" class="internalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="https://www.cointalk.com/file:///D:/Medieval_Germans/Kagan/Kagan.doc#_edn10">[x]</a> Grant also talked about the implications of free will. Pelagius wanted people to try to do something, while Augustine argued that one should serve a higher Fatherland. “His attitude contributed to its downfall.”<a href="https://www.cointalk.com/file:///D:/Medieval_Germans/Kagan/Kagan.doc#_edn11" class="internalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="https://www.cointalk.com/file:///D:/Medieval_Germans/Kagan/Kagan.doc#_edn11">[xi]</a> Help from within was not part of the ethics of fourth century Christians or pagans. The beliefs of the time did not help the defense of Rome at all. Ramsay MacMullen also talked about social problems, but started by saying that the Roman army had lost its professional edge.<a href="https://www.cointalk.com/file:///D:/Medieval_Germans/Kagan/Kagan.doc#_edn12" class="internalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="https://www.cointalk.com/file:///D:/Medieval_Germans/Kagan/Kagan.doc#_edn12">[xii]</a> This was because soldiers were turning into civilians and civilians were turning into soldiers. The soldiers of the frontier became more farmer than soldier, while in places like Antioch and Alexandria, there was an army of monks in turreted monasteries.<a href="https://www.cointalk.com/file:///D:/Medieval_Germans/Kagan/Kagan.doc#_edn13" class="internalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="https://www.cointalk.com/file:///D:/Medieval_Germans/Kagan/Kagan.doc#_edn13">[xiii]</a> A. H. M. Jones said that the way to look at the problem of the Fall was to view the ways in which the two halves of the Empire differed; of course, this is the rest of Jones’ argument that Kagan started in section one. Jones said that the West was more exposed to attack. The East was also probably more populated. The East had greater political stability and their social and economic structure was healthier than in the West. “The heavy burden of taxation was probably the root cause of the economic decline of the Empire.”<a href="https://www.cointalk.com/file:///D:/Medieval_Germans/Kagan/Kagan.doc#_edn14" class="internalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="https://www.cointalk.com/file:///D:/Medieval_Germans/Kagan/Kagan.doc#_edn14">[xiv]</a> There were also too many idle mouths to feed. The Romans were also very apathetic. The civic patriotism of the older Empire had faded away. The teaching of the Church “may have encouraged apathy and defeatism.”<a href="https://www.cointalk.com/file:///D:/Medieval_Germans/Kagan/Kagan.doc#_edn15" class="internalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="https://www.cointalk.com/file:///D:/Medieval_Germans/Kagan/Kagan.doc#_edn15">[xv]</a> In the end, according to Jones, it was pressure from the barbarians that caused the Western Empire to collapse. Ammianus Marcellinus also said the Goths caused the Fall. When the Goths settled in the Roman territory, “the ruin of the Roman Empire was brought about.”<a href="https://www.cointalk.com/file:///D:/Medieval_Germans/Kagan/Kagan.doc#_edn16" class="internalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="https://www.cointalk.com/file:///D:/Medieval_Germans/Kagan/Kagan.doc#_edn16">[xvi]</a></i></p><p><i><br /></i></p><p><i>&nbsp; Norman H. Baynes looked at many reasons that other historians said caused the collapse of Rome. He pointed out some problems with each argument. These reasons were soil exhaustion, climatic change, and blaming the third century emperors. Baynes especially disliked the concept of “mongrelization,” that Greek and Oriental slaves changed the character of the Romans. Baynes also disagreed with Rostovtzeff that there was a “class conscious alliance between the soldier and worker of the land.”<a href="https://www.cointalk.com/file:///D:/Medieval_Germans/Kagan/Kagan.doc#_edn17" class="internalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="https://www.cointalk.com/file:///D:/Medieval_Germans/Kagan/Kagan.doc#_edn17">[xvii]</a> The real reason that Baynes saw for the collapse of the West was lack of men and money, or simply--poverty.<a href="https://www.cointalk.com/file:///D:/Medieval_Germans/Kagan/Kagan.doc#_edn18" class="internalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="https://www.cointalk.com/file:///D:/Medieval_Germans/Kagan/Kagan.doc#_edn18">[xviii]</a> Edward N. Luttwak agreed with part of what Baynes had to say. According to Luttwak, the West just did not have a strong enough frontier defense. There were still strong armies in the West, but they could not be everywhere at once. Keeping with the military theme, Arthur Ferrell said that it was a failure of tactics that led to the fall of the West. The Roman Army was just not as well trained as it used to be. As the Western army became barbarized, it lost its tactical superiority.<a href="https://www.cointalk.com/file:///D:/Medieval_Germans/Kagan/Kagan.doc#_edn19" class="internalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="https://www.cointalk.com/file:///D:/Medieval_Germans/Kagan/Kagan.doc#_edn19">[xix]</a></i></p><p><i><br /></i></p><p><i>&nbsp; The final section was the Decline, Transformation, or Fall. Peter Brown was the first author, and he said it was a social and spiritual revolution. Much like Henri Pirenne<a href="https://www.cointalk.com/file:///D:/Medieval_Germans/Kagan/Kagan.doc#_edn20" class="internalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="https://www.cointalk.com/file:///D:/Medieval_Germans/Kagan/Kagan.doc#_edn20">[xx]</a>, Brown said that as the West lost access to the Mediterranean, society changed.<a href="https://www.cointalk.com/file:///D:/Medieval_Germans/Kagan/Kagan.doc#_edn21" class="internalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="https://www.cointalk.com/file:///D:/Medieval_Germans/Kagan/Kagan.doc#_edn21">[xxi]</a> Instead of a Fall, Brown referred to this process as the evolution of the Late Antique world.<a href="https://www.cointalk.com/file:///D:/Medieval_Germans/Kagan/Kagan.doc#_edn22" class="internalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="https://www.cointalk.com/file:///D:/Medieval_Germans/Kagan/Kagan.doc#_edn22">[xxii]</a> Ramsay Macmullen had a section that spelled out how he believed that there was not an actual fall, but rather a social transformation. Arthur Ferrill, however, said there was a definite collapse of the West, and had a specific reason for it. “The destruction of Roman military power in the fifth century A. D. was the obvious cause of the collapse of Roman government in the West.”<a href="https://www.cointalk.com/file:///D:/Medieval_Germans/Kagan/Kagan.doc#_edn23" class="internalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="https://www.cointalk.com/file:///D:/Medieval_Germans/Kagan/Kagan.doc#_edn23">[xxiii]</a></i></p><p><i><br /></i></p><p><i>&nbsp; This was an ambitious book to be so small. It gave a nice view of some the arguments for the Fall of the Western Roman Empire. The way Kagan divided the book into three sections felt unnatural and contrived. Kagan used all three authors from the first section twice, and really just continued their initial arguments. The last section seemed a bit weak also. Ramsay Macmullen has written some great material, but the example of his work in this book did not did not do him justice. The last excerpt also seemed anticlimactic—the West fell because of the destruction of their military power. It was a nice start for the topic of the Fall, but this book really answered no questions, but may have raised many more. Of course, the purpose of this book was to give an overview of the topic, which it did admirably. However, there was not any recent scholarship and some of the excerpts made it seem like the Germans did not contribute as much to the Fall as internal issues. This may have been because in the past historians did not want to credit “barbarians” with much. Times have changed, but this book almost seemed locked in the past.</i></p><p><i><br /></i></p><p><i><br /></i></p><p><i><a href="https://www.cointalk.com/file:///D:/Medieval_Germans/Kagan/Kagan.doc#_ednref1" class="internalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="https://www.cointalk.com/file:///D:/Medieval_Germans/Kagan/Kagan.doc#_ednref1"></a><i> Donald Kagan, <i>The End of the Roman Empire</i>, Yale University (1992) : 10.</i></i></p><p><i><i><br /></i></i></p><p><i><i><br /></i></i></p><p><i><i><a href="https://www.cointalk.com/file:///D:/Medieval_Germans/Kagan/Kagan.doc#_ednref2" class="internalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="https://www.cointalk.com/file:///D:/Medieval_Germans/Kagan/Kagan.doc#_ednref2">[ii]</a> Kagan, <i>The End of the Roman Empire</i>, 12.</i></i></p><p><i><i><br /></i></i></p><p><i><i><br /></i></i></p><p><i><i>[iii] Ibid., 16.</i></i></p><p><i><i><br /></i></i></p><p><i><i><br /></i></i></p><p><i><i>[iv] Ibid., 24.</i></i></p><p><i><i><br /></i></i></p><p><i><i><br /></i></i></p><p><i><i><a href="https://www.cointalk.com/file:///D:/Medieval_Germans/Kagan/Kagan.doc#_ednref5" class="internalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="https://www.cointalk.com/file:///D:/Medieval_Germans/Kagan/Kagan.doc#_ednref5">[v]</a> Ibid., 27.</i></i></p><p><i><i><br /></i></i></p><p><i><i><br /></i></i></p><p><i><i><a href="https://www.cointalk.com/file:///D:/Medieval_Germans/Kagan/Kagan.doc#_ednref6" class="internalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="https://www.cointalk.com/file:///D:/Medieval_Germans/Kagan/Kagan.doc#_ednref6">[vi]</a> Ibid., 27.</i></i></p><p><i><i><br /></i></i></p><p><i><i><br /></i></i></p><p><i><i><a href="https://www.cointalk.com/file:///D:/Medieval_Germans/Kagan/Kagan.doc#_ednref7" class="internalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="https://www.cointalk.com/file:///D:/Medieval_Germans/Kagan/Kagan.doc#_ednref7">[vii]</a> Ibid., 34.</i></i></p><p><i><i><br /></i></i></p><p><i><i><br /></i></i></p><p><i><i><a href="https://www.cointalk.com/file:///D:/Medieval_Germans/Kagan/Kagan.doc#_ednref8" class="internalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="https://www.cointalk.com/file:///D:/Medieval_Germans/Kagan/Kagan.doc#_ednref8">[viii]</a> Ibid., 44.</i></i></p><p><i><i><br /></i></i></p><p><i><i><br /></i></i></p><p><i><i><a href="https://www.cointalk.com/file:///D:/Medieval_Germans/Kagan/Kagan.doc#_ednref9" class="internalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="https://www.cointalk.com/file:///D:/Medieval_Germans/Kagan/Kagan.doc#_ednref9">[ix]</a> Ibid., 62.</i></i></p><p><i><i><br /></i></i></p><p><i><i><br /></i></i></p><p><i><i><a href="https://www.cointalk.com/file:///D:/Medieval_Germans/Kagan/Kagan.doc#_ednref10" class="internalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="https://www.cointalk.com/file:///D:/Medieval_Germans/Kagan/Kagan.doc#_ednref10">[x]</a> Ibid., 67.</i></i></p><p><i><i><br /></i></i></p><p><i><i><br /></i></i></p><p><i><i><a href="https://www.cointalk.com/file:///D:/Medieval_Germans/Kagan/Kagan.doc#_ednref11" class="internalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="https://www.cointalk.com/file:///D:/Medieval_Germans/Kagan/Kagan.doc#_ednref11">[xi]</a> Ibid., 77.</i></i></p><p><i><i><br /></i></i></p><p><i><i><br /></i></i></p><p><i><i>[xii] Ibid., 82.</i></i></p><p><i><i><br /></i></i></p><p><i><i><br /></i></i></p><p><i><i><a href="https://www.cointalk.com/file:///D:/Medieval_Germans/Kagan/Kagan.doc#_ednref13" class="internalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="https://www.cointalk.com/file:///D:/Medieval_Germans/Kagan/Kagan.doc#_ednref13">[xiii]</a> Ibid., 87.</i></i></p><p><i><i><br /></i></i></p><p><i><i><br /></i></i></p><p><i><i><a href="https://www.cointalk.com/file:///D:/Medieval_Germans/Kagan/Kagan.doc#_ednref14" class="internalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="https://www.cointalk.com/file:///D:/Medieval_Germans/Kagan/Kagan.doc#_ednref14">[xiv]</a> Ibid., 104.</i></i></p><p><i><i><br /></i></i></p><p><i><i><br /></i></i></p><p><i><i><a href="https://www.cointalk.com/file:///D:/Medieval_Germans/Kagan/Kagan.doc#_ednref15" class="internalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="https://www.cointalk.com/file:///D:/Medieval_Germans/Kagan/Kagan.doc#_ednref15">[xv]</a> Ibid., 108.</i></i></p><p><i><i><br /></i></i></p><p><i><i><br /></i></i></p><p><i><i><a href="https://www.cointalk.com/file:///D:/Medieval_Germans/Kagan/Kagan.doc#_ednref16" class="internalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="https://www.cointalk.com/file:///D:/Medieval_Germans/Kagan/Kagan.doc#_ednref16">[xvi]</a> Ibid., 111.</i></i></p><p><i><i><br /></i></i></p><p><i><i><br /></i></i></p><p><i><i><a href="https://www.cointalk.com/file:///D:/Medieval_Germans/Kagan/Kagan.doc#_ednref17" class="internalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="https://www.cointalk.com/file:///D:/Medieval_Germans/Kagan/Kagan.doc#_ednref17">[xvii]</a> Ibid., 121.</i></i></p><p><i><i><br /></i></i></p><p><i><i><br /></i></i></p><p><i><i><a href="https://www.cointalk.com/file:///D:/Medieval_Germans/Kagan/Kagan.doc#_ednref18" class="internalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="https://www.cointalk.com/file:///D:/Medieval_Germans/Kagan/Kagan.doc#_ednref18">[xviii]</a> Ibid., 123.</i></i></p><p><i><i><br /></i></i></p><p><i><i><br /></i></i></p><p><i><i><a href="https://www.cointalk.com/file:///D:/Medieval_Germans/Kagan/Kagan.doc#_ednref19" class="internalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="https://www.cointalk.com/file:///D:/Medieval_Germans/Kagan/Kagan.doc#_ednref19">[xix]</a>Ibid., 143.</i></i></p><p><i><i><br /></i></i></p><p><i><i><br /></i></i></p><p><i><i><a href="https://www.cointalk.com/file:///D:/Medieval_Germans/Kagan/Kagan.doc#_ednref20" class="internalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="https://www.cointalk.com/file:///D:/Medieval_Germans/Kagan/Kagan.doc#_ednref20">[xx]</a> Henri Pirrene, <i>Mohammed and Charlemagne, New York: Dover Publications, 2001.</i></i></i></p><p><i><i><br /></i></i></p><p><i><i><br /></i></i></p><p><i><i><a href="https://www.cointalk.com/file:///D:/Medieval_Germans/Kagan/Kagan.doc#_ednref21" class="internalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="https://www.cointalk.com/file:///D:/Medieval_Germans/Kagan/Kagan.doc#_ednref21">[xxi]</a> Kagan, <i>The End of the Roman Empire</i>, 148.</i></i></p><p><i><i><br /></i></i></p><p><i><i><br /></i></i></p><p><i><i><a href="https://www.cointalk.com/file:///D:/Medieval_Germans/Kagan/Kagan.doc#_ednref22" class="internalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="https://www.cointalk.com/file:///D:/Medieval_Germans/Kagan/Kagan.doc#_ednref22">[xxii]</a> Ibid., 156.</i></i></p><p><i><i><br /></i></i></p><p><i><i><br /></i></i></p><p><i><i><a href="https://www.cointalk.com/file:///D:/Medieval_Germans/Kagan/Kagan.doc#_ednref23" class="internalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="https://www.cointalk.com/file:///D:/Medieval_Germans/Kagan/Kagan.doc#_ednref23">[xxiii]</a> Ibid., 168.</i></i>[/QUOTE]</p><p><br /></p>

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