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<p>[QUOTE="desertgem, post: 540879, member: 15199"]I have been reading quietly. biting my tongue since this thread reappeared, as I know some will be offended. I have read a lot on the topic of toning, both metallurgically, chemical, physically, etc., and I really don't feel that many have a way of determining AT from NT unless the coin has a liquid wave factor rather than a gas wave factor on the surface. If it looks like a smooth wave front of color, like some one poured a solution on the coin and it set there, then there is a high probability it is AT, but if it has a wavy vaporous front with not distinctive smooth edge, then no one can accurately tell by the color nor the pattern. Some oldtimers like Doug and others who have seen thousands and thousands of coins can say " it looks like...." and be somewhat accurate as they have seen how toning affects the struck surface and the metallurgical composition of the coin. And maybe some graders have also seen as many. But the chemistry is fairly well known, and the color interference patterns on the flow lines are also. Chemistry is chemistry, rather it is gas out of a bottle , or gas in the atmsophere or holder. Over 30 years ago I mimiced others and placed coins in cardpaper envelopes. they were white when they went in and toned when I removed them recently. I put some on a forum and they were immediately called AT. I was not going to argue after all, there was no proof besides my word. The same today. If you have a raw toned coin, and can't prove it was toned in your possession, you can't say it is NT. If you see a photo of a toned coin, same. If you buy a slabbed toned coin unless it has a proven natural change as on some slabbed hordes.</p><p><br /></p><p> The only exception that I do not feel the coin doctors can duplicate is the "shadow" effect you see on the Sunny coin at the date and lettering. This seems to me to be an aspect that develops with NT slowly over a longer period of time. Maybe I will be shown wrong about the shadowing.</p><p><br /></p><p> I respect everyones opinion on this subject, but I suspect there are a large number of mislabeled toned coins out there. NT called AT , and AT called NT. Why does it matter really? AT coins existed before the big price escalation because many liked the toning. Anyone who says they know an AT from a NT should have proven reasons rather than a gut feeling. We all know how we feel when a coin is graded by "gut" rather than "technical".</p><p><br /></p><p>Hey, I still like all of you.</p><p><br /></p><p>Jim[/QUOTE]</p><p><br /></p>
[QUOTE="desertgem, post: 540879, member: 15199"]I have been reading quietly. biting my tongue since this thread reappeared, as I know some will be offended. I have read a lot on the topic of toning, both metallurgically, chemical, physically, etc., and I really don't feel that many have a way of determining AT from NT unless the coin has a liquid wave factor rather than a gas wave factor on the surface. If it looks like a smooth wave front of color, like some one poured a solution on the coin and it set there, then there is a high probability it is AT, but if it has a wavy vaporous front with not distinctive smooth edge, then no one can accurately tell by the color nor the pattern. Some oldtimers like Doug and others who have seen thousands and thousands of coins can say " it looks like...." and be somewhat accurate as they have seen how toning affects the struck surface and the metallurgical composition of the coin. And maybe some graders have also seen as many. But the chemistry is fairly well known, and the color interference patterns on the flow lines are also. Chemistry is chemistry, rather it is gas out of a bottle , or gas in the atmsophere or holder. Over 30 years ago I mimiced others and placed coins in cardpaper envelopes. they were white when they went in and toned when I removed them recently. I put some on a forum and they were immediately called AT. I was not going to argue after all, there was no proof besides my word. The same today. If you have a raw toned coin, and can't prove it was toned in your possession, you can't say it is NT. If you see a photo of a toned coin, same. If you buy a slabbed toned coin unless it has a proven natural change as on some slabbed hordes. The only exception that I do not feel the coin doctors can duplicate is the "shadow" effect you see on the Sunny coin at the date and lettering. This seems to me to be an aspect that develops with NT slowly over a longer period of time. Maybe I will be shown wrong about the shadowing. I respect everyones opinion on this subject, but I suspect there are a large number of mislabeled toned coins out there. NT called AT , and AT called NT. Why does it matter really? AT coins existed before the big price escalation because many liked the toning. Anyone who says they know an AT from a NT should have proven reasons rather than a gut feeling. We all know how we feel when a coin is graded by "gut" rather than "technical". Hey, I still like all of you. Jim[/QUOTE]
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