Fake or Fortune

Discussion in 'Ancient Coins' started by Lee Gilmore, Oct 5, 2022.

  1. Lee Gilmore

    Lee Gilmore Active Member

    A auction house here in the U. K have got some wonderful examples of Alexander III and Philip II gold stater for sale next week. All weigh about 8.5gm.
    ] Screenshot_20221005_214000_com.android.chrome_edit_354885657237.jpg Screenshot_20221005_213957_com.android.chrome_edit_366155535881.jpg Screenshot_20221005_213929_com.android.chrome_edit_377197586921.jpg Screenshot_20221005_213912_com.android.chrome_edit_387458884836.jpg Screenshot_20221005_213828_com.android.chrome_edit_406977785875.jpg Screenshot_20221005_213825_com.android.chrome_edit_417586388477.jpg But are they fake or Fortune. Would you bid or not?
     
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  3. Wal888

    Wal888 Well-Known Member

    I would bid a little above the melt value. If you win, but the coins are fake, your loss will be little. Presuming this coins are made of gold, of course!!:cigar:
    Coins as old as these cannot be in such good condition. It is impossible to exist. (IHMO)
     
    Last edited: Oct 5, 2022
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  4. The Meat man

    The Meat man Supporter! Supporter

    That's not true at all. There are plenty of ancient coins that have been preserved practically "as struck". Such coins command a premium, obviously, but they most certainly exist.
    I have no idea about the OP's coins - nothing about them screams "fake" to me - what might tell more about the matter is what auction house is selling them? A reputable and well-established dealer will most likely catch any fakes that come through.
     
  5. hotwheelsearl

    hotwheelsearl Well-Known Member

    I have several coins which are virtually as struck. There’s plenty of hoards where freshly minted coins were immediately buried, never to see circulation.
     
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  6. Bing

    Bing Illegitimi non carborundum Supporter

    Huh???? Of course there are Ancient coins in pristine condition. From what I see, I would say they are genuine
     
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  7. medoraman

    medoraman Supporter! Supporter

    Um, my avatar has original mint luster on both sides, and it's just one hundreds of mint state ancients I own.

    The OP coins look good from the photos but I am not anywhere near an expert on these. What auction firm? Hopefully they have an experienced numismatist on staff. Condition is never a reason to condemn and ancient coins, millions exist in uncirculated or XF condition.
     
  8. Lee Gilmore

    Lee Gilmore Active Member

    Bellmans so not a recognised coin dealer.
    But they seem to be running up in price so someone likes them.
     
  9. medoraman

    medoraman Supporter! Supporter

    Well, if not from a well known firm, I would defer to an expert. If I personally interested I actually know a world class Alexander expert, but I do not wish to bother him for every request on the web. Sorry. Something this expensive I would prefer the opinion of the coin in hand anyway.
     
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  10. john-charles

    john-charles Member

    They just don't feel right to me. The wear seems a bit odd, but I am not the expert. Would be nice to have side by side images of accepted coins with these.
     
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  11. Wal888

    Wal888 Well-Known Member

    Well, I could have said "almost impossible to exist" but it's very hard for me to believe that a coin minted almost 2000 years ago can be in a perfect state of conservation, even if it's made of gold.
    I am forced to agree that there are cases where buried coins have been discovered and some of them may be in excellent condition, but coins like these at this auction I would not buy because they look to me like they were made a few days ago and not a few centuries ago. Forgive me for not believing.
     
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  12. medoraman

    medoraman Supporter! Supporter

    I would simply say sir to browse major sales. Coin after coin in the same state of preservation.

    Honestly, our belief "real" coins should be worn works against us. A fake with artificial wear and patina is many times harder to prove its a fake. Uncirculated coins are easier, since many defects are not hidden.
     
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  13. ominus1

    ominus1 Supporter! Supporter

    ..always be critical..i'd much rather have a real coin i thought was fake than a fake i thought was real(and i collect forgeries)...be from Missouri..(sho-me)..
     
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  14. Tejas

    Tejas Well-Known Member

    Actually, I don't think that the coins shown at the beginning of this thread are in such unbelievably good condition. And of course I agree with the experienced collectors who stated that many ancient coins (gold, silver and sometimes base metals) exist in "as struck" condition. This is a fact and not a matter of believing.

    Here are two randomly picked recent purchases of mine. Boths coins are basically in "as struck" condition and both coins are common and inexpensive (i.e. below 200 USD)

    Volusian: The obverse is superbly struck from fresh dies. The reverse die was somewhat "tired", but the coin has not suffered any wear or tear in the last 1700 years. All of my 7 or so coins of Volusian are in this condition or better.

    5496.png
    Probus: This coin was struck in a base metal. It was struck from fresh dies and except for the loss of silvering, which could have occured in antiquity, the coin is basically "as struck".
    Indeed, I think for certain periods, many collectors search for coins in "as struck" condition. I have more than 100 Probus Antoniniani and almost all of them are in "as struck" condition and some retain there full silvering.

    Probus.PNG
     
    Last edited: Oct 16, 2022
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  15. Wal888

    Wal888 Well-Known Member

    Thanks for your comment @Tejas.
    I'm glad you see it that way and can prove it for the nice coins you have.
    Maybe I'll change my mind about it and start thinking about collecting these rarities as well. Who knows...
     
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