Fake Greek coins?

thanks,
April

 

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yep, notice they dont show you a photo of the hologram on the back? probably a cheap NGC knockoff

 

https://www.ngccoin.com/certlookup/4281744-001/NGCAncients/

 

We have discussed that NGC Carisius here before and I fail to understand why NGC has not bid on it to get it off the market as an embarassment to them. The advice was given above to check a questionable seller's other items. This fake is listed by a dealer with noting but modern coins that would have no reason to know anything about ancients. If you buy from an eBay seller whose other lots are all Lincoln cents, you get what you deserve.

I agree there are many jerks in the hobby including some that post here and some that number me among the jerks. I guess it is a matter of opinion. CT has a very usable 'Ignore' feature where you can have posts by jerks using your definition disappear from your feed. I have used it on more than one occasion and recommend it highly to anyone bothered by the posts of any member myself included.

Cool graphic. Where did you get it?

I am particularly aware of the Carisius fake since I bought one several years ago and returned it for apologetic refund from the seller when we discovered the clones.

There are many of them now but I suspect the NGC one must have been slabbed when many of us were younger and less aware of the problem. Looking at the coin now, I can not believe that I bought it in the first place and that it fooled so many people, myself included, who should have known better. Does anyone know if you can tell when that NGC fake was slabbed (from the number???)? If David Vagi missed it ten years ago, I might tend to be more understanding while I would be more inclined to support burning him at the stake if he made that mistake yesterday. Have you heard the statistic that you are more likely to die in a traffic accident going to the post office to pick up your NGC package than you are to find a fake in a slab in that package? True or false? IDK.

90% is an insult. Even I don't make one mistake in ten. 99% would be an insult also as would 99.9%. The NGC crew handles an obscene number of coins every day and makes so few mistakes that I would suspect that I would think a genuine NGC slab containing a fake coin would have a collector's value on its own just like original Paduans or first generation Beckers do. I wish I knew a true number for NGC errors. It is small.

Other slab companies are a completely different matter. Anything I said nice about NGC does not apply to the others.

 

The ignore function is certainly useful. I have only used it twice though I suspect that I am the subject of it many, many more times.

 

I actually believe this is a very recent mistake. The submission number for this coin was 4281744. I found some screenshots from a mostly modern collector who sent in a submission to NGC ancients just over a month ago and the submission number was in the 4282400 range so only about 700 higher than this coin's, so this had to have been in the last year or so.

 

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The points being raised in this thread have been made over and over, most recently a month ago in this thread, including discussion of the slabbed Carisius mentioned earlier.

Those of you who weren't here four weeks ago may wish to review that thread and others like it. Also, CoinTalk has an excellent search function.

 

Thanks. Someone gave it to me a while ago( another fellow coin collector )

 

You would think this about the 99.9% but what of the odds that Red_spork just came across one like that?

the percentage of genuine NGC slabs have to be lower than that.

As I said, modern pressed fakes are VERY difficult to detect

 

I am glad You like my posts

 

real case, fake coin then. That may be even worse.

 

To the Carisius fakes.
Who can anyone here know that the slabbed one is not the authentic mother?
If you have all cast fakes and the authentic host in hand it is very easy to tell, which one is the authentic mother. But if you only have low quality pictures and not all related pictures of all examples, it is not possible to distinguish, which ones are cast and which is authentic mother.
Bad quality pictures can be misleading and result in wrong conclusions.

The Lucania. Thurium sold by CNG as Festa fake was previously NGC slabbed,
"NGC graded About Uncirculated"

https://www.numisbids.com/n.php?p=lot&sid=2531&lot=650

https://www.acsearch.info/search.html?id=476718

This dies of the Festa fake are not in bulletin on counterfeits
(20 N.2 and not in 22 N.1 )

From Bulletin " Not only did F produce casts (as see no 1, below), he also made his own dies, and, while a remarkably skillful copist the many ways these dies differ from their models mekes them easily identifiable."
... "and they regularly appear for sale, often wrongly identified as being from same dies as a coin published by Noe. Characteristics of this fakes are a" ...

 

April, I agree no one is peerfect but based on statistics and probability rules, if one expert get fooled the chance is more but if 2 or 3 experts get fooled then the chance is very slim. NGC has few experts to check coin and weight inspect styles etc. Ok now there could be some fakes that is very well done and trick all of these experts but the chance would be way lower than a random coin on ebay that no expert has seen. and I do trust NGC expert way more than myself (although I have been collecting for 4 years but no where I am close to someone like NGC experts that has seen thousands of coins fakes or reals and definitely they can detect way better than many regular collectors)

Arash

 

If Modern pressed fake can not be detected by reputed experts in NGC or other dealers I will accept it as Genuine. I was very paranoid like you are and thought there are many coins in market that are good fakes and no one including experts can detect them but then I realized after a while that those good fakes that no one is able to detect them are indeed genuine

 

I agree. I've found the Coin Forgery Discussion List very reliable and thorough.

 

I think that you have to be an Expert or at least very near to Expert level by yourself to be able to tell if another person is a real Expert or a wannabe Expert.
You have to be able to understand, if what he says is true and how sophisticated it is.
The knowledge and skills of an Expert in fake detection should be much better than average like the skills of ROBERT KOKOTAILO.
Some are really good in attributing and writing descriptions others are very good in fakes detection. To be very good in both is rare and in most cases they are specialized only in one field.
CFDL had and I guess still has only loooooow quality ebay fakes, which are either very obvious low quality cast fakes or very obvious pressed forgeries from modern dies.
You needn´t be an Expert to detect these even an amateur can do this.

The only sophisticated ones at cfdl were Barry P. Murphy and Cliff Laubstein, both are not active there anymore since many years! But if Cliff Laubstein wanted a competent answer, he wrote at Forvm with his nick Gibrog ^^

So who here or at cointalk or nfsl is able to detect real high quality fakes at auctions 5000+ Euro or 10000+ Euro or 100000+ Euro ?
And detecting some fakes at this price range within maybe 1 year, that would be a real Expert for me.

If there is anyone here, then it would be a real honor and pleasure to learn from you.

To find fakes at some reputable auctions houses for 100-3000 with imho not so good forgery detection is nothing special. The authentication skills of the Experts from auction houses are ranging between bad to extraordinary.

 

I agree that the CFDL outs only low-quality fakes. However, the number of bids on many "obvious low quality fakes" makes it clear they are deceptive to some people. It takes quite a bit of knowledge before the "obvious" becomes obvious.

A few months ago I started a thread about how the few contributing members of the CFDL notice fakes:

https://www.cointalk.com/threads/how-we-detect-fakes.311907/

Of course, they don't have the coins in hand, just eBay photos, so deceptive fakes will very likely escape notice on that list. Also, it takes time to write up the fakes and post threads on the fakesellers they do notice. There is no incentive for those fakebusters to scrutinize all the coins on eBay for fakes. Be happy that some collectors are taking the time and making the effort to give beginners some help in avoiding fakes.

 

Hi there,

I found and old looking coin in my grandfathers collection. He has visited Greece and Rome before.
I found what I think is a Greek dekadrachm of Syracuse.
Does anyone here know if it is Authentic and what it would be worth. If anyone knows what it’s called please let me know. Cheers, Josh

 

Post pictures of the coin, front and back. Also measure the diameter and weight and post that information along with the pictures in a new thread. There are more fake Syracuse dekadrachms that authentic ones.