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<p>[QUOTE=&quot;Drusus, post: 680078, member: 6370&quot;]I think you misunderstand. I agree completely that unless its just a glaring fake or well known with other examples known to be referenced...I agree...it is difficult to make a determination when it comes to fake or real. This was my exact point about people being able to contact people and warn them. Presumably, unless the coin fits into the &#039;well known fake&#039; category, this very fact is a reason NOT to allow people to announce to all bidders a coin is fake. That&#039;s all we had with the coin in question was a picture of a coin that many people thought &#039;didn&#039;t look right&#039; (including myself)...lots of ancients &#039;don&#039;t look right&#039; but are in fact right for the that variety. I have seen people go on and on about how a coin is completely wrong, condemning the coin...then someone who knows more about that coin type comes in and says...that&#039;s just a different variety...it doesn&#039;t look fake to me...the guy condemning the coin just didn&#039;t know enough about varieties to speak authoritatively about it but did anyway.</p><p>The cleaning was a bit of a side rant as I also collect more modern coins...people will proclaim coins &#039;cleaned&#039;...I wont get into the issue deeply, we all have seen it...people saying that if a coin has been rubbed with soft cotton (as you may know sof cotton can RUIN a coin <img src="styles/default/xenforo/clear.png" class="mceSmilieSprite mceSmilie1" alt=":)" unselectable="on" unselectable="on" /> ), I can see it on a photo...the cleaned business IMO defies logic and people who make claims that they can detect coins that have been cleaned or that no coin even CAN be improved with cleaning say such things in defiance of actual fact...I have never had to get over the business of cleaning being defective...I assure you.</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>As for Forum, I have a few problems with that forum but they mainly stem from what I see as conflict of interests when it comes to open (realistic) discussion about fakes and Joes business. As he has said many times, that is his coin shop and anything that might effect peoples willingness to buy coins from him will not be allowed...from something as minor as recommending a place to buy something elsewhere at a better price than what he might be selling it at to daring to paint what I feel to be a more realistic picture of the state of fakes in ancients. I was fanged one time for daring to correct one of his experts when he said something like &#039;to make a convincing fake it costs a lot of money and requires big expensive machines&#039; or some such nonsense...trying to reassure buyers that its HARD and very EXPENSIVE to make a good fake. They are doing it in the Balkans with a very minimal amount of equipment is the reality...I was told such talk is not allowed. I still think its a good place to go for an opinion from people who are quite knowledgeable...I am the person who recommended he go there and post the coin to get some feedback. If I had such a low opinion of the people there, I would not have done so...I know that all coins status cannot be resolved all the time but since there ARE a lot of people there who see a LOT of coins on a daily basis...they might have seen this coin (or one like it) before.</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>As for the people at forum, I think because many of them are dealers, they are not quick to proclaim something fake...over cautious even? Others, like the gentleman who proclaimed it fake because of scratches he was sure, from just the photo, were new scratches (again, even if they ARE new scratches, how does that make it fake beyond doubt) or some at the CFDL who I think sometimes are a little trigger happy when it comes to proclaiming something fake....In the end, there is still a lot of people who know quite a bit and a good place to check just in case they can help you...</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>But as for people being able to tell if a coin is fake or not...I agree that from a photo it can be difficult or impossible to do this and my main point is that I just dont trust a persons ability to be accurate enough to spot fakes beyond a shadow of a doubt (if there is not known examples they can refer to) consistently enough to think its okay for them to &#039;warn&#039; other buyers to stay away by contacting them. Who are they and what do they know? If anyone is allowed to do this, you will have problems.</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>And the cleaning issue, and the hyper anal way people condemn a coin that they THINK might have been (shock!!) cleaned and the the way people are so paranoid about fakes they see them around every corner...and the way many are just so vague in their condemnation like &#039;it doesn&#039;t look right to me&#039; type of thing...thats fine and good when you are making your on decisions to buy or not...but you shouldn&#039;t be allowed to pass that on to all bidders just because YOU don&#039;t like it. Without doubt there are just glaring fakes and those I will even report here and there...but as for the less obvious and those you just have a feeling about...that&#039;s another story.[/QUOTE]</p><p><br /></p>

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