Exploring Non-U.S. Coins... (1716 Swiss Thaler / Zurich DAV-1783)

I am now expanding my collecting beyond U.S. coins and recently made my first impulse buy (followed by a couple of more via Lord M) in well over a decade! Without any self-imposed confines, I feel very refreshed! By opening up the flood gates, I find myself reading, researching, and broadening my historical/numismatic knowledge. In other words, this is lots of fun.

This 1716 Swiss Thaler of Zurich (DAV 1783) displays an attractive gun metal patina with lots of toning in hand. Although my photos do not suggest so, it also has a high degree of luster. It was straight-graded AU-55 by NGC and contains most of the details you’d expect to see on an uncirculated example (very few exist). The coin is 40mm in diameter, making it a large piece in hand. Unfortunately, this particular slab prevents one from getting a perfectly clear view of the coin’s edge, which is lettered. I located an informative reference, online, which did an excellent job of providing information pertaining to this series. It stated this text but I’m presently unable to re-locate it. This series ran from 1713-1717. One detail I observed, which I did not see mentioned, was the fact that there was an alteration in the obverse. Coins I’ve observed, minted as 1713 & 1714, display the rampant lion standing on a “chess board” instead of the “terrain” depicted on this 1716 example.

Leave it to the Swiss, to have minted such a fine coin, in the early part of the 18th century! Mintages appear to be unknown. Per NGC, to date, only 4 examples of this 1716 have passed through their halls.

My apologies for these poor photos which do this coin, no justice. Even the coin’s reverse, is full of magenta, cobalt, and copper hues which surround the devices. This is a significant step back in time for me, but I do see what appears to be very faint hairlines within the fields. Under 5X, these do not appear to ever cross over the devices, but I can’t fully rule out some form of prior “cleaning,” at this time.

Overall, I am extremely satisfied with this particular coin and the direction it’s led me. For this reason, I’ve dedicated a single thread to it. I invite everyone to share your thoughts on this coin, non-U.S. collecting, and everything in between. Thanks for reading!

 

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That's a beautiful coin. I'm unable to afford it but if I had the money I'd focus on World Silver Thalers, Crowns, or other Dollar size coins. Other countries have produced some really beautiful coins. IMO much better than ours, except early US Type coins (Bust type).

 

very cool coin. I really Like the lion and early date. Swiss Cantons/Zurich, 1716, Thaler, silver, KM#135
my 2002 3rd edition Krause World Coin Catalog has the
grade/values
VG-$75.00 F-$125.00 VF-$250.00 XF-$600.00 UNC-? I am sure the prices have gone up.
Did your coin cost $800-1,000 ?

 

I was about to post the very same. It's always a good feeling to welcome a new convert.

 

Beautiful piece.
Opening the floodgates, well stated!

 

If your mind is open to coins from the rest of the world I definitely encourage it. There is so much more variety and history outside of U.S. numismatics. U.S. collectors have a limited group of coins to target, so they just keep trying for higher and higher grades and more expensive pieces. There's so much more to do with world coins. Such as wide variety of nations, eras, etc.

 

Thank you for your words of encouragement everyone. Spirityoda, I purchased this Thaler for around $430. NGC has one MS example graded higher (if I recall correctly). That coin sold at auction for $3500. LordM, thank you for offering those superb photographs of these coins to me. I will appreciate and carefully preserve these pieces. I really enjoyed viewing all of the wonderful coins you presented. Wow! I’ve been reading The Practical Book of Cobs, by the Sedwicks, and am already able to make good sense of that real. Very fascinating for me.

Thanks for the kind welcome to this Dark Side, all! You’ll be seeing me around.

 

That is a very good price.

 

World coins do open up a whole new world to discover. Unfortunately, they are not any cheaper than U.S. coins of equivalent scarcity! I hear that they once were, but no longer. For instance, just about any uncirculated silver crown- or dollar-size non-U.S. coin from before World War 2 is going to run you at least $30, likely more, whereas a common-date Peace dollar can be had in a low uncirculated state for as little as $22-23. Some of those Meiji dragon yen pieces were minted in the tens of millions, but you'd be extremely lucky to find an uncirculated example under $60.

 

I don't agree that coins of equivalent scarcity aren't any cheaper. Maybe for the examples you give, but you can get a British Honduras 5 cents with a mintage of 20,000 for $5 on a good day. Imagine a U.S. coin with that mintage. There are countless examples of world coins with low mintages that are still easy to find cheap.

 

Fair enough. Post-WW2 base metal coinage of small jurisdictions in low mintages can be shockingly affordable. In my own mind I adjust some of this mintage figures for the population of the issuing jurisdiction.

 

That Zürich thaler certainly has nice surfaces, if that's what you're into, but to me the great designs are what appeal to me. Many, many world coins have interesting designs on both sides.

 

jgenn - I always thought you had good taste! It looks like we are fishing in the same barrel. I couldn't agree more on the design comment.

 

@WashQuartJesse: I like the purchase! There are many knowledgeable people on this forum if you have questions or want opinions. My best advice is to buy an old Krause and immerse yourself in it. Also bookmark the following sites and learn as much as you can.
https://www.acsearch.info/
https://www.sixbid.com/
Per the cleaning, you will find that many talers have been cleaned at one point in time. You will gradually develop an eye for what is market acceptable (per NGC and PCGS) and what your personal tolerance is for it. Be patient, as there are lots of options out there.

 

Pre-WW2 silver coinage as well, in many instances.

 

Really? That's the area I've immersed myself in the past few weeks, and it's very hard to find prices commensurate with U.S. stuff at MS grades, apart from a few particular issues that for whatever reason are abundant. Maybe I just need to be more patient.