Experiences selling certified Morgans

Discussion in 'Coin Chat' started by ddddd, Mar 25, 2017.

  1. ddddd

    ddddd Member

    Hey all,
    As the title says, I was recently trying to sell an NGC MS 63 Morgan (relatively common date, neutral toning) and have noticed something that to me seemed odd. At the first coin store, the dealer looked at it for a few seconds and said it wasn't for him (no offer to purchase). At the second store, the dealer pulled out the graysheet, looked at the number, and said I'll pay 20% below the number here.

    Is this common in your experiences? I always thought Morgans were some of the most liquid coins that any lcs would buy. I also thought margins on them were better than 20% under sheet (i.e. more like at sheet or 5% under).

    In general, I'm seeing more of the local coin stores becoming places where dealers look to buy precious metals under spot or do favorable deals where non-coin people are trying to dump a relative's collection. Just some thoughts. What are you all experiencing?
     
  2. Avatar

    Guest User Guest



    to hide this ad.
  3. Cascade

    Cascade CAC Variety Nerd

    Common is common and a ton of it is out there. I would expect 5% below only on better dates where the dealer can make a decent profit off of it relatively quickly. A common ms63 will probably sit a while then most likely be wholesaled off
     
    V. Kurt Bellman and SilverMike like this.
  4. SuperDave

    SuperDave Free the Cartwheels!

    There are MS63 Morgans with slabbed Populations over 100,000 just in grade, much less higher grade. And very darn few whose premium from 63-64 is enough to make 63 a "popular" collecting grade. It's unsurprising, but fair to admit also partly unlucky. What was the date?
     
  5. ddddd

    ddddd Member

    I know they are common, but that is what I thought made their pricing (and margins) pretty uniform. Also, MS 63 - MS 65 Morgans seem to be the ones that people collect the most (those are the grades I see most often in threads here, at shows, in lcs displays, etc). The date was 1889 (hence common, but not 1921 common).
     
  6. ddddd

    ddddd Member

    Most of the time that I see them sit around is because the dealer asking price is 50-100% above sheet:p
     
  7. baseball21

    baseball21 Well-Known Member

    Sheet pricing was never meant to be collector single purchase pricing
     
  8. ddddd

    ddddd Member

    I understand that. It's just odd to me how in certain cases the sheet can work against one both ways. If one is selling, it is 20% under sheet because sheet is all the dealer says they will receive when selling. However, when one is buying, 50% over sheet is what the dealer will quote since they "have to pay sheet or more" to get the coin in the first place. Basically, something isn't adding up and in this case the dealer wants to win on both the buying and selling side.

    Also, it should depend on the item. Enter a blast white luster bomb Morgan or a nice toner and sheet pricing can be thrown out the door. However, take a generic baggy 63 Morgan, and it seems like the price on those should be like any generic commodity (like silver where the bid and ask price is 10 cents apart).
     
  9. baseball21

    baseball21 Well-Known Member

    There certainly are dealers that try and play it that way, in this case I do not know the party involved so maybe maybe not. I do think the sheet has been a determent to the hobby overall and needs to switch to retail prices, everyone wants to buy like a wholesaler but sell like retail.

    Fatal flaw of all price guides, everything is treated the same. For most things you honestly will do better just selling on eBay in terms of what you net.
     
    ddddd likes this.
  10. ddddd

    ddddd Member

    Very true! Mostly I do just list on ebay since I can do better that way, but there are some items that I would rather sell for slightly less in person since the spread is so small (mainly bullion and sometimes generic Morgans).

    It does seem to greatly depend on the dealer (and sometimes even the mood of the same dealer...are they having a good day or not). At a local show that I attended last year, there was a dealer that had a large booth set up with a ton of generic material. He must specialize in moving this stuff since I was able to sell some common items (i.e. inexpensive Proof non-cameo PCGS Franklins) for sheet price. However, for the better items, like a cameo Franklin, he would still basically pay the sheet price for generic Franklins. Hopefully, he'll be back this year and still buying the generic items.
     
    baseball21 likes this.
  11. baseball21

    baseball21 Well-Known Member

    Completely agree. I wish I had a local option for generics like that but I don't. It is a bit crazy the spreads for offers from dealer to dealer, it's funny too since a lot of the times the lowest buy offers are the highest sell offers. Kinda is what it is, if you have that local option I would take advantage of it every time. The closest shop to me is absolute garbage, so I stick to mostly online
     
    ddddd likes this.
  12. ddddd

    ddddd Member

    True the local option is very nice to have, but I have also had plenty of experiences where the dealers at these shops just aren't interested in customers or being friendly. I know a store isn't obligated to buy from or sell to me, but showing a little courtesy would be nice. It doesn't help when the dealer is rude, calculates the price wrong, and then gets mad at you for calling him out. That has actually happened twice with one dealer that I avoid now. Once he agreed to pay one price, then turned around to get the money from his register, and decided to pull out a lower amount and pretend that was the agreed upon price.

    The low buy, high sell is what I have noticed too. One place I visited would buy Silver Eagles at or below spot and sell them for 200-300% over spot. That dealer is still in business, so someone must buy from him. I don't know who since those prices rival HSN!
     
  13. SuperDave

    SuperDave Free the Cartwheels!

    Honestly, it's a case - at the "actual numismatic dealer" level as opposed to Ebay - where supply exceeds demand by a margin so huge that it's just sunk money in a dealer's inventory. There's no demand to even stock them. As an occasional buyer of Morgans (as you should know :) ) I won't look at a 63 without good reason for toning or variety.

    It's the downside of the TPG system. There simply isn't call for that many common Morgans in mid-MS. They only exist due to effective marketing in the early days of slabbing; a common Morgan in MS63 does not justify the cost of grading. Not then, not now.

    It'd move on Ebay, in front of an audience which in large part doesn't grok just how common they are.
     
    Stevearino likes this.
  14. ddddd

    ddddd Member

    Fair enough. That is where it was and exactly where it is now (with a price drop too).
     
  15. cpm9ball

    cpm9ball CANNOT RE-MEMBER

    It isn't the "sheet" working against you. It is the grade. Below MS64, Morgans can get downright fugly. Even some 64's are barely passable if there are too many distracting marks in the prime focal areas. Common dates in MS65-67 can sell much more readily at decent premiums. For MS64, there needs to be something special about it, and in MS63 or below, you're pretty much relying on the inexperience of the buyer if it doesn't have some significant attribute.

    Chris
     
    Stevearino likes this.
  16. SuperDave

    SuperDave Free the Cartwheels!

    I'm surprised that it didn't move on Ebay. Refer to my earlier mention of luck. :)
     
  17. IBetASilverDollar

    IBetASilverDollar Well-Known Member

    Was going to post about exactly this.

    In the case of a common date MS63 Morgan I think the dealer views it as "I can make $20 on this but it's going to sit here for a long time" and it's just not worth it. They'd rather use those dollars for something with a much larger profit potential if it's going to sit in their display for 6 months + or something like ASE's that are constantly moving even though profit is minimal (or 300% like dealer mentioned above LOL)

    I haven't been in the coin game long nor do I own a shop but I do own a small business so my mind works like theirs do.
     
  18. ddddd

    ddddd Member

    I'd understand if it was just when I was selling the coin, then it would be the grade. However, when the same dealer prices his MS 61, 62, 63 coins for well over sheet, then it is the sheet in my opinion.

    Also, I've had similar with an MS 65. One time the dealer was in a good mood and I got sheet, the other time it was 15% under sheet.
     
  19. IBetASilverDollar

    IBetASilverDollar Well-Known Member


    This is exactly why I just today listed 7 morgans on eBay, 6 at ms64 and 1 63. I bought them early on in my collecting and quickly evolved to where if it's a common date 65 is my minimum for morgans (unless beautifully toned, have a couple 63's that I wouldn't trade for 65s of same year/mm).
     
  20. cpm9ball

    cpm9ball CANNOT RE-MEMBER

    Then, you should stay away from that dealer. Do you think that just because someone is a dealer that he/she is automatically giving you a fair deal?

    Chris
     
  21. ddddd

    ddddd Member

    That is a good point. Some things will sit for a long time and just aren't worth the hassle. Sometimes though these items sit for a long time because the dealer doesn't think they'll make $20 on it, but something like $50. Personally, I would think it would be better to make 10 sales of +$5 in a short period than wait 6 months for the one +$50 gain (note: this might not be true online or on ebay where there is a higher chance of being scammed or having to do a return, but in person it would make more sense).

    One other thing that I constantly see is people saying that it's worth establishing a relationship with a dealer by buying from them even if the items are overpriced. Shouldn't it work the other way too? Shouldn't a dealer occasionally stretch a bit and overpay a collector or give them a deal to bring them back to the store? In my experiences, if I'm able to sell a coin to the dealer, I'm more likely to buy from them. I have cash from the sale and am ready to spend it with them. If I can't sell something though and the dealer isn't budging on their prices, then I'm likely to just walk away.
     
Draft saved Draft deleted

Share This Page