Featured Exhibit - Grading The Morgan Dollar

eddiespin · Jan 3, 2015

Me, too. Good work, tmoneyeagles. Your dedication paid off. I know I could have used a straight-forward, no-nonsense guide like this back when I was learning the ropes.

EDIT: Of course that was back before The Beatles discovered America, but we shan't say anything further about that.

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Ron W. · Jun 14, 2015

tmoneyeagles said: ↑

MS-61/MS-62 – These are coins that feel between MS60 and MS63. These coins will have less bagmarks than a MS-60 but not than a MS-63. These coins might have also other things that are limiting them from being a MS63, such as luster not being full and flashy, or having a series of big marks that limit the coin to get such a grade.

Here is an example of a MS-61, graded by PCGS.

1884-S MS-61 PCGS

Here are photos of the coin;

This coin has many small marks on it, along with several bigger, more distracting marks. The mark to the left of the nose, the mark from the earlobe down to the lower cheek, and the marks out to the field after the M in UNUM and the the stars following it, limit this coin from being graded any higher.

Here is an example of a MS-62, graded by PCGS.

1884-S MS-62 PCGS

Here are photos of the coin;

This coin has the same grade limiting marks, along with the other tinier, bagmarks. The coin has three small circular gouges in the coin near the bottom of the cheek, and to the right of these there is another gouge.
Without these four gouges, I really think this coin would have a shot to get into a 63 holder.

MS-63 - A Mint State 63 coin will be a very attractive, but most of the time, common coin. There will be noticeable and distracting marks in areas such as the cheeks, and less so in the fields like on a MS-61/62. There will also be fewer big contact marks on a MS-63.

Here is an example of a MS-63, graded by PCGS.

1879-CC MS-63 PCGS

Here are photos of the coin;

While the marks in the cheek region of this coin appear harsh, it doesn’t have many more marks on the region. The luster seems to have a booming effect and is a very attractive coin, and I would grade the coin MS-63. (Although that statement is a bit subjective due to Heritage’s bright photos, although on most 63’s, somewhat of a booming luster can be seen)

MS-64 - A Mint State 64 coin is very similar to a MS63, it will just have less bag marks on the cheek and/or fields and might have more attractive luster as well.

Here is an example of a MS-64, graded by PCGS.

1878 8TF MS-64 PCGS

Here are photos of the coin;

This coin has far less distracting marks and has a somewhat soothing effect to it. It has a few field marks, and a few noticeable marks on the cheeks.
Without the majority of what is visible on the cheek could make this a MS-65 coin.

MS-65 - A Mint State 65 coin will have a very small amount of marks, usually in the field. A Mint State 66 coin will have a fewer amount of marks, and a perfect cheek, and the marks that are on the coin will be less distracting. Regarding luster, both can be the same, greater, or less than the other. This must be determined on a coin by coin basis.

Here is an example of a MS-65, graded by PCGS.

1879-O MS-65 PCGS

Here are photos of the coin;

This coin has a lot of eye appeal, abundant luster, and only a few marks. This is a an accurately graded. MS-65 and I agree with PCGS's graded 100%.

Here is an example of a MS-66, graded by PCGS.

1894 MS-66 PCGS

Here are photos of the coin;

This coin has an extremely clean cheek, and only a few non-distracting marks. The one part of the coin that might be limiting it from a MS67 is the neck and to the right of the number 4. This is an accurately graded MS66.

MS-67 - The coin is basically flawless, it will have tiny imperfections, such as a tiny mark in the field, or maybe a weak strike.

Here is an example of a MS-67, graded by PCGS.

1904-S MS-67 PCGS

Here are photos of the coin;

The coin exhibits a beautiful luster, and nearly no marks. But there are two noticeable marks in the field in between Liberty's eye and the E.

MS-68 - The Mint State 68 coins are nearly as good as it gets. These coins have very tiny imperfections that would take one a while to see, they could be the tiniest bag mark to a slightly weak strike.

Here is an example of a MS-68, graded by PCGS.

1884-CC MS-68 PCGS

Here are photos of the coin;

These scans show the imperfections slightly better;

MS-69 – And finally, there are no higher graded Morgan Dollars than MS-69. So this is the last grade that this thread will cover. A MS-69 is virtually flawless. Most flaws would likely be so small that they may only be visible under extreme magnification, although some could be seen with the naked eye.

Here is an example of a MS-69, graded by PCGS.

1881-S MS-69 PCGS

Here are photos of the coin;

I hope who ever read this thread, found it informative and can use it to better understand the grading of the Morgan Dollar series.

Thank You,

-Travis
Click to expand...

Ron W. · Jun 14, 2015

Thanks for sharing this info, helps in my collection of Morgans.
Ron W.

Ronald Richmond · Sep 30, 2015

Hello Travis

Just wanted to tell you this is the first thread I read of yours. I really enjoyed it your reading of the coin to me was very impressive I enjoy looking at old money and the ways that people grade the coin.

Thank you for the enjoyable reading it went very good with my morning coffee. And there were very nice words said to you from other readers. I believe you entertained us all thank you so much
Sincerely R.F.R

swamp yankee · Sep 30, 2015

tmoneyeagles said: ↑

MS-61/MS-62 – These are coins that feel between MS60 and MS63. These coins will have less bagmarks than a MS-60 but not than a MS-63. These coins might have also other things that are limiting them from being a MS63, such as luster not being full and flashy, or having a series of big marks that limit the coin to get such a grade.

Here is an example of a MS-61, graded by PCGS.

1884-S MS-61 PCGS
Well Done Travis and thanks!

Here are photos of the coin;

This coin has many small marks on it, along with several bigger, more distracting marks. The mark to the left of the nose, the mark from the earlobe down to the lower cheek, and the marks out to the field after the M in UNUM and the the stars following it, limit this coin from being graded any higher.

Here is an example of a MS-62, graded by PCGS.

1884-S MS-62 PCGS

Here are photos of the coin;

This coin has the same grade limiting marks, along with the other tinier, bagmarks. The coin has three small circular gouges in the coin near the bottom of the cheek, and to the right of these there is another gouge.
Without these four gouges, I really think this coin would have a shot to get into a 63 holder.

MS-63 - A Mint State 63 coin will be a very attractive, but most of the time, common coin. There will be noticeable and distracting marks in areas such as the cheeks, and less so in the fields like on a MS-61/62. There will also be fewer big contact marks on a MS-63.

Here is an example of a MS-63, graded by PCGS.

1879-CC MS-63 PCGS

Here are photos of the coin;

While the marks in the cheek region of this coin appear harsh, it doesn’t have many more marks on the region. The luster seems to have a booming effect and is a very attractive coin, and I would grade the coin MS-63. (Although that statement is a bit subjective due to Heritage’s bright photos, although on most 63’s, somewhat of a booming luster can be seen)

MS-64 - A Mint State 64 coin is very similar to a MS63, it will just have less bag marks on the cheek and/or fields and might have more attractive luster as well.

Here is an example of a MS-64, graded by PCGS.

1878 8TF MS-64 PCGS

Here are photos of the coin;

This coin has far less distracting marks and has a somewhat soothing effect to it. It has a few field marks, and a few noticeable marks on the cheeks.
Without the majority of what is visible on the cheek could make this a MS-65 coin.

MS-65 - A Mint State 65 coin will have a very small amount of marks, usually in the field. A Mint State 66 coin will have a fewer amount of marks, and a perfect cheek, and the marks that are on the coin will be less distracting. Regarding luster, both can be the same, greater, or less than the other. This must be determined on a coin by coin basis.

Here is an example of a MS-65, graded by PCGS.

1879-O MS-65 PCGS

Here are photos of the coin;

This coin has a lot of eye appeal, abundant luster, and only a few marks. This is a an accurately graded. MS-65 and I agree with PCGS's graded 100%.

Here is an example of a MS-66, graded by PCGS.

1894 MS-66 PCGS

Here are photos of the coin;

This coin has an extremely clean cheek, and only a few non-distracting marks. The one part of the coin that might be limiting it from a MS67 is the neck and to the right of the number 4. This is an accurately graded MS66.

MS-67 - The coin is basically flawless, it will have tiny imperfections, such as a tiny mark in the field, or maybe a weak strike.

Here is an example of a MS-67, graded by PCGS.

1904-S MS-67 PCGS

Here are photos of the coin;

The coin exhibits a beautiful luster, and nearly no marks. But there are two noticeable marks in the field in between Liberty's eye and the E.

MS-68 - The Mint State 68 coins are nearly as good as it gets. These coins have very tiny imperfections that would take one a while to see, they could be the tiniest bag mark to a slightly weak strike.

Here is an example of a MS-68, graded by PCGS.

1884-CC MS-68 PCGS

Here are photos of the coin;

These scans show the imperfections slightly better;

MS-69 – And finally, there are no higher graded Morgan Dollars than MS-69. So this is the last grade that this thread will cover. A MS-69 is virtually flawless. Most flaws would likely be so small that they may only be visible under extreme magnification, although some could be seen with the naked eye.

Here is an example of a MS-69, graded by PCGS.

1881-S MS-69 PCGS

Here are photos of the coin;

I hope who ever read this thread, found it informative and can use it to better understand the grading of the Morgan Dollar series.

Thank You,

-Travis
Click to expand...

CHUCKCXB · Sep 30, 2015

krispy said: ↑

Nice piece of work Travis! :thumb:

PCGS should get you to write descriptions for Photograde as this is on par with their grading tool in terms of being succinct and a quick reference when needed.

This is a great resource and a benefit to have on CoinTalk.
Click to expand...

I have been a long time user of Photograde .. I only wish their photos were as good as yours

thejaxcollector · Oct 3, 2015

Thank you for this outstanding thread! Is there some way to bookmark this so that I can use it as a reference in the future?

DMPL_dingo · Oct 4, 2015

thejaxcollector said: ↑

Thank you for this outstanding thread! Is there some way to bookmark this so that I can use it as a reference in the future?
Click to expand...

Select the “Watch Thread” feature to bookmark it in Cointalk. You'll receive notifications (which can be turned off) when a new post occurs. Alternatively, you can also just bookmark the OP permalink to access it as reference, whenever.

thejaxcollector · Oct 5, 2015

Thanks so much!

GoldFinger1969 · Mar 21, 2016

Bumping this thread as I think the entire piece, but especially the beginning, is fantastic.

GoldFinger1969 · Mar 21, 2016

I would love for someone to create a thread like this for Saint-Gaudens Double Eagles. From, say, AU-53 and up...no need to go all the way down to the lower grades....with lots of details maybe even quantifying how many scuff/bag marks can be on each side of the coin and on the devices/mirrors to maintain a certain score.

Any takers ?

tmoneyeagles · Apr 7, 2016

GoldFinger1969 said: ↑

I would love for someone to create a thread like this for Saint-Gaudens Double Eagles. From, say, AU-53 and up...no need to go all the way down to the lower grades....with lots of details maybe even quantifying how many scuff/bag marks can be on each side of the coin and on the devices/mirrors to maintain a certain score.

Any takers ?
Click to expand...

Haven't started a thread in a while, I think I'm due.

Just gimme a couple months...

stewart dandis · Apr 7, 2016

tmoneyeagles said: ↑

Haven't started a thread in a while, I think I'm due.

Just gimme a couple months...
Click to expand...

T$$$...Weren't you in the Ebay Coin Hood at one time. I remember a few of y'all. MrMet, Magicman, Shinn and a few others. I liked that hood. Hey, good job on your Morgan thread.

tmoneyeagles · Apr 7, 2016

stewart dandis said: ↑

T$$$...Weren't you in the Ebay Coin Hood at one time. I remember a few of y'all. MrMet, Magicman, Shinn and a few others. I liked that hood. Hey, good job on your Morgan thread.
Click to expand...

Hot diggity daffodils! What a blast from the past! Yes, that's the first forum I participated in starting back in 2007. I haven't thought about Shinn in at least 8 years --he and @Chiefbullsit and also Ricky (founder of Coinhood.com) used to get into it all the time. That was a nice little group, with the aforementioned, along with Javasdad, @Travlntiques, silver*coins, Dennis--those were the days.

stewart dandis · Apr 7, 2016

Yep, those were the days. I remember those guys, and Ryan post here all the time, haven't seen Chief lately. Yeah, Chief and Shinn were classic...

Travlntiques · Apr 7, 2016

tmoneyeagles said: ↑

Haven't started a thread in a while, I think I'm due.

Just gimme a couple months...
Click to expand...

I'd say it's time! The coin world is calling you back T$-man! Pretty amazing to think almost 9 years have passed since those early days. Remember our first con-artist take-down....was it MambyPam or something like that? Lol, back in those days we could actually see the buyer/seller ID on every transaction which sure made sleuthing a lot more enjoyable.
Cod, Mustang, Stormynurse, Sniffer....all good memories, Chief & Shinn were always the best though. Those battles would get new posts every few seconds! Still we never could beat that Coffee Lover Hood!

tmoneyeagles · Apr 8, 2016

Travlntiques said: ↑

I'd say it's time! The coin world is calling you back T$-man! Pretty amazing to think almost 9 years have passed since those early days. Remember our first con-artist take-down....was it MambyPam or something like that? Lol, back in those days we could actually see the buyer/seller ID on every transaction which sure made sleuthing a lot more enjoyable.
Cod, Mustang, Stormynurse, Sniffer....all good memories, Chief & Shinn were always the best though. Those battles would get new posts every few seconds! Still we never could beat that Coffee Lover Hood!
Click to expand...

Stormy! Stang! Cod! F-sniffer! Hot dang, the memories.

Ranmatendo · Apr 11, 2016

Hi new to the site. Was wondering if I can get some opinions. I have a bunch of raw Morgan's and so I would like to know if I wanted to get them graded, what would be the conditions to send to make it worth grading? As in should I only send in BU or everything AU and up or what? I don't have any key dates and are all common dates. Thanks

Nathan401 · Apr 11, 2016

Thank you. This was very helpful.

GoldFinger1969 · Apr 11, 2016

Ranmatendo said: ↑

Hi new to the site. Was wondering if I can get some opinions. I have a bunch of raw Morgan's and so I would like to know if I wanted to get them graded, what would be the conditions to send to make it worth grading? As in should I only send in BU or everything AU and up or what? I don't have any key dates and are all common dates. Thanks
Click to expand...

If it cost $35 on average to get a coin graded, the coins will need to be MS on average to make it cost-effective.

An expert on Morgans can be more specific.

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