Examples of Miss Attributed Kennedy Half Dollars – Heritage Auctions

Discussion in 'US Coins Forum' started by Tim C, Sep 4, 2016.

  1. Tim C

    Tim C Active Member

    There are three lots in the upcoming Heritage auctions for Kennedy half dollar varieties which I hope the bidders will take a good second look at. From the pictures, it looks like these three items have been miss – attributed or in other words – “Sheep in Wolves’ Clothing”.

    First coin is purported to be a 1965 FS-802 https://coins.ha.com/itm/kennedy-ha...30.s?ic2=mytracked-lotspage-lotlinks-12202013 photographs does not show the markers of the CONECA DDO-004.

    Second coin is purporting to being a 1967 FS-102 https://coins.ha.com/itm/kennedy-ha...32.s?ic2=mytracked-lotspage-lotlinks-12202013 which is cross referenced in the Cherrypickers’ Guide as CONECA DDO-007. The photographs illustrated in this auction resembles the markers of the DDO-003 and not the DDO-007.

    The third coin is listed as the 1967 FS-801 https://coins.ha.com/itm/kennedy-ha...92.s?ic2=mytracked-lotspage-lotlinks-12202013 The 1967 FS-801 is cross referenced to the CONECA DDR-001 which has a “Medium triple spread on all stars, including those between the rays …” The photographs in this listing clearly shows only doubling on the stars.

    The good thing here is that PCGS does have a “Buy Back” guarantee on coins that they miss attribute, unlike NGC.

    I’m not finding fault with anyone here, the co – signer, Heritage or PCGS:
    1. I myself have had coins in my collection that later on found out to be miss attributed by PCGS. On the 1967 FS-801, I currently have three labeled as such from PCGS, one is the right critter DDR-001, the second one is DDR-010 and the third one didn’t look right and when we sent it into James Wiles for his once over – James Wiles gave it a new listing as the DDR-016.
    2. Heritage is only listing the coin as spelled out on the label.
    3. PCGS, the last I heard, only has one or two employees doing attribution and there is just no way they can know each variety from all series, especially the Kennedy series where there are so many different varieties that may look similar to others. Just within the 1967 Kennedy half dollars there are 18 different DDRs recognized by CONECA (15 of them being business strike) and I have seen at least half a dozen 1967 DDR with doubling or tripling on the stars that James Wiles determined as “Too minor to list”. Also, on the 15 business strike 1967 DDRs that CONECA lists, 10 of them have doubling on the stars, 3 have tripling on the stars and 2 have quadrupling on the stars.
    Just food for thought when buying varieties, regardless of what the label says, verify the variety yourself or the tuition could get expensive.
    Seattlite86 likes this.
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  3. Burton Strauss III

    Burton Strauss III Well-Known Member

    Co-signer is a loan term, you mean consigner.

    Unfortunately attributions are only as good as the attributor and the various TPGs have all had on and off periods...
  4. 19Lyds

    19Lyds Member of the United States of Confusion

    PCGS's AND NGC's record on these varieties is really a hit or miss scenario and it REALLY hurts when they miss.

    Primarily because PCGS's "Market Buyback" price may not necessarily coincide with what an enthusiastic bidder might be willing to bid.

    At least two of these coins are being consigned by a board member but PCGS's error is no reflection upon him.

    Thanks for the heads up Tim!
  5. Conder101

    Conder101 Numismatist

    Well let's see how long have I been harping "Never trust attributions assigned by the PCGS or NGC. ALWAYS confirm their attributions."? About 25 years now. (And PCGS extending their guarantee to cover attributions is a fairly recent development.)
  6. Tim C

    Tim C Active Member

    PCGS has been guaranteeing their attributions since the 4th Edition of the Cherrypickers' Guide came out and they started using the new FS numbers.
  7. Dean Whitlock

    Dean Whitlock New Member

    Just had a Kennedy '67 FS-102 in MS, bought from an expert, attributed by James Wiles and sent in with the letter from Wiles to PCGS. They took two rounds and phone calls to get it done. Unfortunately, I learned the hard way with NGC, having bought a few Kennedy's with various stated attributions then finding out I have no recourse. Tim, nice work on this auction, I agree that the '67 FS-102 in this auction is not the DDO-007
  8. Conder101

    Conder101 Numismatist

    So that would be 8 years out of 30.
  9. Tim C

    Tim C Active Member

    Most of the varieties they (PCGS) has only been attributing for eight years or less .... So what is your point?
  10. Insider

    Insider Talent on loan from...

    Note: NGC and PCGS were very late to start doing varieties. That's why all during the 1980's you could "cherry" even naked eye doubled dies. On several occasions PCGS (one of my coins and three other cases I heard of) would not consider slabbing a newly discovered "major" variety until another was found! :facepalm:

    Remember, these guys were well respected dealer/numismatists not interested in varieties. In their defense, I know NGC did not wish to expand into any type of additional service UNTIL they felt ready, built a library, and hired knowledgeable personnel.

    The four major services have good professionals on staff. Nevertheless, mistakes can occur. I will say I'm amazed you have found three in one auction. I thought the folks at Heritage wer pretty savvy too.
  11. Conder101

    Conder101 Numismatist

    Before that time they did attribute a lot of redbook varieties and some others. Many of those were wrong too. (In those earlier years there were a LOT of 1794 head of 93 slabbed large cents out there that were actually heads of 94, about a thousand dollars or more difference in value.)
  12. Tim C

    Tim C Active Member

    Good point...
  13. Tim C

    Tim C Active Member

  14. Insider

    Insider Talent on loan from...

    I should be careful about trying to ID many "minor" varieties from Internet photos. If you are wrong once out of four you have "bashed" two companies.

    I should think it makes more sense to Email Heritage about your concerns. Put your name, address, and phone # and include your extensive numismatic credentials. You may get a job offer out of it. :) Few things are more fun than getting paid big money for working at your hobby. ;)
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