Ex Museum Collection Numbered Coins

Hi All,

@Dougsmith in a recent post noted that "Several museums numbered coins in the distant past. Many are just ink or paint and can be removed BUT I would suggest selling it to someone who is not bothered by the number and buying a coin you like. I would love to know where my coins were marked and why the collection was dispersed."

Me too!

I have only one, sold by Amphora in Nov. 1988 and labelled ex-Carnegie Collection. The reverse shows the old museum accesion number 13513• above Athena's shield in india ink.



Athena Promachos Tetradrachms, First Reduced Standard, c 306-c 300 BCE

Size: 28 mm
Weight: 14.1g
Die Axis: 11:00

Obv: Alexander the Great, wearing horn of Zeus-Ammon, diademmed head facing right, clad in elephant scalp and scaly aegis tied by snakes. Delta at top of aegis below Alexanders ear. Dotted border.
Rev: Athena Promachos striding right on tiptoe, brandishing spear and shield. She wears a helmet, a girdled chiton and a scarf falling in swallow-tail folds. In left field: ΑΛΕΞΑΝΔΡΟ[Υ], in right field: eagle on thunderbolt, above which are monogram for KP and a Corinthian helmet. Dotted border.

Refs: CPE-70; Sv-164, pl vi, 3 [37 listed]; BMC 06.004, #032; Zervos (1974), Issue 29 [99 recorded, from 11 obverse dies]. Zervos (1976), Artist A, Styles 2 & 3. Known with obv die link to CPE 71.

Note: Was unsold (at $475) from Amphora List #26 (10 Sep 1985); was Lot#272 in a previous Amphora list.​

After some research I read that the Carnegie collections coins were sold off starting in 1982 ( a Google search turned up a NYT article at
https://www.nytimes.com/1982/05/23/...useum-collection-to-be-sold-by-ed-reiter.html ). Searching more, I found that Spink sold off the "Carnegie Museum of Natural History Pittsburgh" collection in 1985 (Spink Auction 43, 18 April 1985). I don't know if my coin is from that sale (yes or no) - if anyone has access to it and could let me know I'd be very much obliged.

Thanks for reading this far. Now I'd enjoy seeing yours.

- Broucheion

 

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Great coin and provenance.

I have a few with old numbers. This is my favorite, but I never could find out which museum it came from



Antony quinarius

III VIR R P C
Diademed and veiled head of Concordia right

M ANTON C CAESAR
Two hands clasped round caduceus

Mint moving with Octavian in Gaul
39 BC

1.57g

Crawford 529/4b. Sydenham 1195. Sear, Imperators 304

From a very old collection
Museum number 175 on obverse.
Could use some more cleaning but I don't want to loose the number.

 

Always...allllways learning something new (to me) here.

Thank you.

 

These are interesting but I am wondering why a museum would sell off its pieces. Can anyone enlighten me as to why. Thanks!

 

Museums are constantly buying and selling inventory. There are all sorts of reasons why a museum may be selling. It may be because the administration has decided to change the direction of their showings, or because there is something in an upcoming sale for which they need to free up capital. Sometimes museums sell inventory because the item has become become popular and risen in value significantly. Sometimes they are just strapped for cash and need money for operating expenses. They could have acquired specimens of higher quality. These are just a few reasons I can think of off the top of my head.

 

Hi LaCointessa,

For sure, the general topic of de-accessioning is controversial but here's some information info from the NYT article:

• "According to Dr. Black, the directors and curators regard the collection as 'totally peripheral to what it is we're doing as a natural history museum.' He notes that since its inception it has always been overseen by volunteers, rather than a professional staff, and that most of it has never been placed on display - or even made accessible to the public."
  
• "Proceeds from sale of the coins, as in the case of the stamp sales, would be used to enhance and upgrade other sections at the museum."
  
• "The collection doesn't have any 'killers,' according to Robert S. Archer, president of Spink & Son USA; there aren't any superstars …"

Basically, from their point of view, their accumulation of coins (and stamps) was not something they strove to collect, curate and display. They got these as bequests and in 1977 they started the process of turning this 'found' material into cash. It took 5 years through the courts to finally get permission to sell off their coins and stamps.

Not wishing to get into museum politics here, the most I can say is that if you choose to leave coins to any institution make sure they really, really want your treasures.

- Broucheion

 

I'll get into them... in brief.

Museums sell works for a number of reasons:

-If the works in question are out of line with the purposes of the museum-- as is clearly the case here (ancient coins at a natural history museum). The Hispanic Society of America jettisoned their coin collection a few years ago for this reason, and the Albright Knox Gallery sold their antiquities collection not long ago.

-If the item is a duplicate. Museums do this constantly. The Met recently did this with a newly donated group of a couple thousand Asian artifacts from the Florence and Herbert Irving Collection (kept the highlights, sold the duplicates).

-If they want to raise money to buy a new object or to add to collection funds. The Met famously sold of several Van Gogh's in the 1970s to pay for the Velazquez portrait of Juan de Pareja.

These three reasons are generally considered acceptable within the museum community--so long as the funds go back to buying new works and not to cover operating expenses. That's not to say they're always considered ethical decisions. Several of the examples I mentioned above were/are highly controversial primarily because of the unique importance of the works being sold. There is something disturbing about a work that has been under public stewardship reverting to an inaccessible private collection.

The last reason why museums deaccession is:

-To cover operating expenses. This is a last resort for some museums in dire financial straits, but is hugely frowned upon. Generally speaking it will result in the blacklisting of the museum. It is against the policies of all national and international museum associations and will lead to other member museums refusing to work with the museum in question. Some recent examples include the Berkshire Museum, the Rose Museum at Brandeis (where the sale was ultimately called off), and the National Academy Museum.

 

Again,

Anybody have coins to post?

- Broucheion

 

I have around 30 of these coins (Mostly Gallienus) with paper tags glued to the obverse.. not sure who they were added by..

 

The ink or paint numbers on coins are also on my many centuries
old collections in Europe. When one comes up for auction or sale,
many times the person(s) who now own the collection are turning
loose of the coins to raise money for other projects. Sometimes a
charity is on the receiving end of a donation and they sell. I would
hope that one day the ANA and ANS will purge their collections of the
thousands of duplicates they have. Museums have a hard time making
exhibits with coins. They are very tiny and hard for the non-numismatist
to enjoy. On the other hand, an old clay jug set up with a few thousand
denari or tets spilling from it is much more appealing. Visually, Swedish
plate money or a 5 ft. Yap coin would draw more interest than a
display of 12 Caesars for a non-numismatist.

 

I'll one-up those numbers with this example from the Getty Villa - it has a collector's mark (of a different metal) inserted directly into the flesh of the coin.

 

Thanks for all this great information and the photographs of your cool coins.

 

Someone long before I acquired this denarius of Julia Domna put a 3011 in red ink in the exergue:


Julia Domna, AD 193-217, under Caracalla.
Roman AR denarius, 3.1 g, 20 mm.
Rome, AD 213.
Obv: IVLIA PIA FELIX AVG, bare-headed and draped bust, right.
Rev: VESTA, Vesta standing left, holding Palladium and scepter.
Refs: RIC 390; BMCRE 29030; Cohen/RSC 230; Hill 1340; CRE 417.

 

That one hurts my soul.

 

Gonzaga family mark, I believe.

 

Gonzaga coins are collected just for that mark alone. I know I wish I had one!

 

It never occurred to me the markings on this coins were numbers. However they were done in Indian ink and it does not come off. I had two coins with these type of markings, they both came from a northern California dealer who noted them in the description.


ALEXIUS METROPOLITAN TETARTERON SBCV-1922 DOC 35 CLBC 2.4.3
OBV Christ Bearded and nimbate wearing tunic and kolobion, seated on a throne without back; holds gospel in l. hand.

REV: Bust of emperor wearing stemma, divitision, and chlamys; holds in r. hand scepter cruciger and in l. hand Globus crucifer.

Size 14/12mm

Weight 3.6 gm

This is a thick square coin, very unusual beveled edges.

 

Wow, that one is royalty. But of course, it's a Getty's coin.

- Broucheion

 

Can someone enlighten me on the "Gonzaga" provenance.

 

https://www.cointalk.com/threads/are-there-any-known-ancient-coins-with.317949/

here's some relevant thread