Error or Damage 1857 Seated Half

Discussion in 'Error Coins' started by Travlntiques, Sep 13, 2014.

  1. Travlntiques

    Travlntiques Well-Known Member

    This one isn't mine yet, (and may not be depending on your responses). :)
    If you all could take a look at the denticles on the obverse from 4:30 to 6:15, I'm not quite sure what is going on. I've seen this weakness before on Half Dimes described as the result of a broken collar, but this could just be damage. The reverse looks normal, maybe a slight die-crack after the word "of", but the missing denticles are just glaring. No chance on it being fake, eh?
    Thank you in advance for any help!
    $_57.JPG $_57 (2).JPG
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  3. Sean the Coin Collector

    Sean the Coin Collector Active Member

    Hard to say but there is something about it i don't like i wouldn't buy it !
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  4. Ed Sims

    Ed Sims Well-Known Member

    It does not look "right." The area under the date does not look like a mint struck coin should look. The reeded edge on the left side of the coin from what I can see looks beveled and it should not be. The edge should be squared off and the reeding should extend to the edge of the coin. If you can weigh it I would recommend you do so.
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  5. Treashunt

    Treashunt The Other Frank

    also, the rim at 1 o'clock and 3 o'clock.

    Nope, not for me
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  6. ldhair

    ldhair Clean Supporter

    I wonder if this was once in some type of jewelry mount?
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  7. d.t.menace

    d.t.menace Member

    Unless it's some rare variety I'd pass.
  8. medoraman

    medoraman Supporter! Supporter

    To me, its a pretty scary fake. Look at the reverse, nothing weird going on here. Now, the obverse, the edge of the obverse die deviates from the edge of the coin at the bottom. It cannot be a mint error unless there was massive doubling throughout the coin, right? So, my only conclusion is its a fake where they simply laid out the beading incorrectly. Unless one of you error experts could explain to me how the rim got double struck without the entire obverse doing the same, I would classify it as a not so believable Chinese fake, (most likely).
    Travlntiques likes this.
  9. Travlntiques

    Travlntiques Well-Known Member

    With the added insight and more time to look....something does seem a little off.
    I contacted the seller a few minutes ago for his opinion (and the weight). It's listed on eBay in a 4 piece lot, the other 3 are pretty rough, so I thought this one could be a bargain error. The seller does have a brick & mortar shop, so I don't want to say fake just yet, but no one can check and double check everything.
  10. jello

    jello Not Expert★NormL®

    I'm agreeing Larry.
    Rim marks do look like it was mounted in something.
  11. Travlntiques

    Travlntiques Well-Known Member

    And the verdict is in:

    Dear travlntiques,

    Dear Ryan - I ended the item. The 1857, after closer exam, is NG in my opinion. Weight is 12.4gr - about right - but the coin shoots as only 80% silver on our ThermoScientific XRF laser gun. Ringing the coin..... the pitch is slightly higher but not dramatically so. Thanks for pointing it out. It isn't the sort of piece that one would normally be suspicious of. - Regards, Bob"

    Thanks to you all for posting......this one is interesting to say the least. 80% silver, eh? The Chinese are getting better!
  12. medoraman

    medoraman Supporter! Supporter

    Sounds like a good seller. I would remember his name and patronize him.
  13. Travlntiques

    Travlntiques Well-Known Member

    Indeed! I've done business with him before, both as buyer and seller and always had a good experience. Guess that's why I wanted to believe this was an error! It can happen to anyone, glad he pulled the listing.
  14. ldhair

    ldhair Clean Supporter

    I think the dealer needs a new machine or he fed you a line of bull to get past your questions. The coin is real.
    Look at the shield on the reverse. See the die clash on the right side. You will find this same clash on many real 1857 half dollars.
    I don't feel that's something you will find on a fake.
    It's just a damaged coin.
  15. medoraman

    medoraman Supporter! Supporter

    Look at the space between the date and the edge denticles. NO way can the edge of the coin be correct spacing, the damaged denticles are correct for spacing, but not correct and veer away from the edge of the coin. So what is your theory, that damage literally smashed the edge of the coin there? Why then is the reverse unaffected by the same smashed coin? I could understand if you are saying the coin is severely damaged right there, (maybe), but with the denticles not being on the edge of the coin and the reverse unaffected I cannot fathom how this could be a real coin and just damages.

    Btw, remember most of these things are copied from real coins, so things like die clashes would be copied as well. My specialty in US coins was SL halves, and I have a couple of 57P's, and LOTS of SL halves altogether. I have never seen the denticles veer away from the edge of the coin in such a manner.
  16. Travlntiques

    Travlntiques Well-Known Member

    The question I sent him was basically just asking for his opinion on what caused the damage and how much it weighed. He came up with the fake idea himself without me planting any "seeds".
    He could have realized that an error coin was worth more than these would bring as a lot, and pulled the ad for that reason too, but I'm thinking it's a good fake.
    Just think; if the obverse was as nice as the reverse nobody would have looked twice at it......
  17. ldhair

    ldhair Clean Supporter

    Interesting coin for sure. Any other opinions?
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