El cazador treasure coin Spanish silver

Discussion in 'World Coins' started by Jimm, Mar 3, 2021.

  1. Jimm

    Jimm Active Member

    Greetings believe it or not I traded coins like this for soda bottles that's right bottles anyway this is USA's first coins I'm sure you experts know all about it did research on it different sites got a ballpark figure on eBay what are you ladies and gentlemen comment on this one
     

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  3. Robert Ransom

    Robert Ransom Well-Known Member

    Looks fake to me.
     
  4. potty dollar 1878

    potty dollar 1878 Florida girls have to love walking there sharks.

    I agree a modern replica to look real my opinion.
     
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  5. medoraman

    medoraman Supporter! Supporter

    Careful guys. When its sea salvaged silver, the surfaces will appear porous like many fakes look. Never condemn sea salvage silver just by the look of the surfaces. This is due to the seawater removing ions from the surface over the years, giving it that "casted" look.

    I do not know enough about them to verify it sir, just know most sea salvage silver has to be looked at by real pros in order to see if authentic. I know there are some pros on these on CT, hopefully they can comment.
     
  6. potty dollar 1878

    potty dollar 1878 Florida girls have to love walking there sharks.

    Most of the ones I see are white/grey I guess this one hasn't been treated at all yet to remove the black gunk.
     
  7. tommyc03

    tommyc03 Senior Member

    I agree with @medoraman . While these can be had at many novelty stores and come with COA's, they are replicas and these certificates are a dime a dozen. But they can still be in this condition and be completely authentic. Best to research this subject before jumping the gun with quick replies.
     
    Last edited: Mar 3, 2021
    Pickin and Grinin likes this.
  8. Pickin and Grinin

    Pickin and Grinin Well-Known Member

    I have owned a few of these, but only in tpg slabs. There are a lot of these that are fake. Not to disappoint you @Jimm but you COA is worthless, and is not a guarantee. Send it back for a refund if you can. @CHARLES GINETTO @Morgandude11
    These COA's can be printed in seconds, and the crude method of producing these coins make them easily counterfeited.
     
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  9. Bayern

    Bayern Active Member

    Good comment. I have quite a few of these, and the OP coin does appear genuine.
     
    medoraman likes this.
  10. Raulhg

    Raulhg New Member

     
  11. Raulhg

    Raulhg New Member

    I think you have a genuine one. I personally own over 100 El Cazador coins graded by NGC and most of them have the same appearance as yours. Some got graded and others come with a small COA like the one you have.
     
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  12. Collecting Nut

    Collecting Nut Borderline Hoarder

    That salt water can do some strange things to silver.
     
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  13. Black Friar

    Black Friar Well-Known Member

    I agree with Raulhg as I have several pieces from El Cazador. Sorry I haven't taken images to share. The whole story about the chap who found the coins in his fishing nets is quite interesting.
     
    serafino likes this.
  14. serafino

    serafino Well-Known Member

    I have one El Cazador 8 Reales and it's slabbed. I would never buy a raw one. Far too many fakes out there. The history behind the ship and how they found the wreck is fascinating for us history buffs.
     
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  15. John Scholefield

    John Scholefield Active Member

    upload_2021-3-4_14-41-7.png
    This coin, I am very confident has spent 170 years at the bottom of the Mediterranian, just off the coast of Mallorca, and not in Cardigan Bay as the write up in the Bulletin Numismatique No 59 erronously reports.
    https://www.bulletin-numismatique.fr/bn/pdf/bn059.pdf
    It was probably from a costal trader out from Marseille lost around 1837 as the coin (and many others) are almost 'as struck'
     
  16. medoraman

    medoraman Supporter! Supporter

    Must have been extremely well protected underwater, like in a sealed cask or something. Saltwater leeches first the copper ions from silver coins. This is extremely well known, in fact the Romans used this fact in the 3rd century to create their shiny, silver looking 5% silver coins. In the sea for 170 year NO silver coin, lying loose, would not lose quite a bit or weight and have a granular surface.
     
  17. Jimm

    Jimm Active Member

    You guys are the bomb
     
  18. Jimm

    Jimm Active Member

     
  19. John Scholefield

    John Scholefield Active Member

    upload_2021-3-4_15-39-40.png
    Weight 24.41 g against 25.0 (book)
    People usually repeat what they have read or heard elsewhere. I am just supplying evidence, which I am very confident is accurate. Philippe BOUCHET who examined the find and wrote the article was a well respected French Numismatiste.
     
  20. medoraman

    medoraman Supporter! Supporter

    I do not doubt your information sir. Thanks for the weights, showing some was lost. We do not really know how they were underwater, and there is a lot of them, so I am still supposing in a fairly small container, all together, and if not a lot of current, (because in a container), it seems very reasonable. Same as ancients found in a pot or bags of morgan dollars stored for a century. The more contained the coins are together, and the more coins in a group there are, the less each coin is affected. Morgan dollar bags would have bright white, untoned coins in the middle, and only the ones along the edges were toned.

    Take the same coin and throw it on the seabed, and the weight loss and surface condition would be much different. I have friends who scuba dive, and silver coins they find randomly in the ocean are in MUCH worst shape being younger than the coin you depicted sir.

    My comment about how the Romans surface leeched 5% silver flans was also from a friend who strikes medieval style coins. He replicated the process, and I was there when he took flans he leeched in saltwater that looked like pure copper, but upon striking the ions of silver left on the surface melted and coated the coin with a thin silver plating.
     
    serafino likes this.
  21. Jimm

    Jimm Active Member

    Appreciate the information see I do learn things out here LOL
     
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