Edge/Rim issues on Ancients

Discussion in 'Ancient Coins' started by Steelers72, Sep 22, 2020.

  1. Steelers72

    Steelers72 Well-Known Member

    It can be disappointing when you find a coin with a portrait style you like, but the coin's surface or edges appear to have issues. Many times I am willing to overlook minor rim & edge issues if the rest of the coin is appealing.

    At what point is a coins rim/edge issues considered detrimental to the coin's appeal & deserves a call out?

    Below is an example of what I'd consider enough "damage" to be worth noting and making a coin unattractive given the metal deterioration/flan chipping

    upload_2020-9-22_16-20-0.png

    While a coin that looked like this wouldn't bother me much at all, edge cut or not:
    [​IMG]

    Post your thoughts on rim & edge damage in Ancients
     
    Last edited: Sep 22, 2020
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  3. Bing

    Bing Illegitimi non carborundum Supporter

    I don't find the coin in the image to be more or less attractive because of the edge. The portrait looks well defined and detailed. It's the devices that make or break a coin for me. Besides, the image you show is greatly magnified showing I believe the edge issues which may not be as prominent to the naked eye. I also prefer full legends so if the edge issues affect the legend it can be a problem for me (but not a game changer). BTW, show the entire coin. I'm interested in seeing the issue as a whole.
     
  4. Roman Collector

    Roman Collector Supporter! Supporter

    That's the way it left the mint. The flans were cast en chapelet, that is, using open or closed molds in which a number of mold hollows were connected by channels. This resulted in a "runner" or sprue between the cast flans, which would be removed before striking. Sometimes, the process of breaking off the sprue removed a chunk from the flan's edge, leaving what is known as a "flan chip." That's what happened here. It's just a byproduct of the manufacturing process and it makes the coin interesting.
     
  5. John Conduitt

    John Conduitt Well-Known Member

    It makes it look more interesting - like comparing the edges of an ancient parchment to a piece of A4 photocopier paper.
     
  6. Steelers72

    Steelers72 Well-Known Member

    This is very interesting thanks for explaining this. At what point would you consider it to be a flan issue vs a biproduct of the minting process itself?
     
  7. ancient coin hunter

    ancient coin hunter I dig ancient coins...

    Ancients since they were struck by hand started out as disks that were super heated and then struck by a hammer on a die. This process often led to the metal spreading out and not appearing as a "circle" as you would find with a milled coin. Part of the charm of these coins to me.
     
  8. hotwheelsearl

    hotwheelsearl Well-Known Member

    This has probably the worst edges I own, but it's kinda endearing.
    Tetricus I Laetitia reverse.JPG

    When the edge has actual damage, that's a major issue:
    L Memmius Galeria.JPG
     
  9. ancient coin hunter

    ancient coin hunter I dig ancient coins...

    Case in point, this example of Gallienus, who is known for sometimes ragged flans.

    gal1.jpg

    gal2.jpg
     
  10. Steelers72

    Steelers72 Well-Known Member

    Thanks for your opinion. I try to balance the fullness of the legends with the portrait when deciding if a coin is attractive. I'm willing to overlook offcentering to a degree if the portrait style is really nice.
     
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  11. Theodosius

    Theodosius Unrepentant Fine Style Freak! Supporter

    I think it's a matter of personal taste how gnarly an edge you can tolerate. A certain amount of edge character can add to a coin and certainly help to verify it's authenticity.

    I am a lot less worried about edge issues that were created by the mint when the coin was made than about chips that happened later in the coin's life. Chips that remove part of the design are especially unappealing.
     
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  12. ominus1

    ominus1 Well-Known Member

    ..i myself am leary of perfect edges on ancients....:)
     
  13. Roman Collector

    Roman Collector Supporter! Supporter

    This flan chip is a tad overboard:

    Gallienus PAX flan chip.jpg
     
  14. ominus1

    ominus1 Well-Known Member

    ..well, idk if that chips 'from the factory'....:D...if thats what ya mean...:)
     
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  15. Alegandron

    Alegandron "ΤΩΙ ΚΡΑΤΙΣΤΩΙ..." ΜΕΓΑΣ ΑΛΕΞΑΝΔΡΟΣ, June 323 BCE Supporter

    Nailed it (from my manufacturing experience.)
     
  16. Alegandron

    Alegandron "ΤΩΙ ΚΡΑΤΙΣΤΩΙ..." ΜΕΓΑΣ ΑΛΕΞΑΝΔΡΟΣ, June 323 BCE Supporter

    Agreed.
     
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  17. medoraman

    medoraman Supporter! Supporter

    For me, it becomes unattractive if majorly affecting main devices or puts the integrity of the coin in doubt. Examples would missing a major device or if a large flan crack can break the coin in two if you look at it wrong. Short of that, its part of the coins history, along with the die used and wear incurred.
     
  18. TuckHard

    TuckHard Well-Known Member

    I'm usually not too worried about edge issues, a lot of times they add character in my opinion.

    352-353 CE AE Follis Constantius Gallus Heraclea Mint RIC VIII Heraclea 89 3.51g.png
    Roman Empire
    Constantius Gallus | 352-353 CE
    AE Follis | 3.51 grams
    Heraclea Mint
    Obv: DN FL CL CONSTANTIVS NOB CAES, Δ behind bust
    Rev: FEL TEMP REPARATIO, fallen horseman, S above and left, SMHΔ below
    Ref: RIC VIII Heraclea 89​
     
  19. Spaniard

    Spaniard Well-Known Member

    I really like odd shaped flans and personally feel it gives the coin some character.
    Here's a couple of my favourites...
    Plautilla RIC#369
    PLAUTILLA BLACK.jpg
    Gadhaiya paisa 1 Drachm
    GAD10 BLACK.jpg
     
  20. Caesar_Augustus

    Caesar_Augustus Well-Known Member

    I actually prefer mine with edge/rim issues. Gives the coin special character.

    Gallienus
    BI Antoninianus
    [​IMG]
    267 - 268 A.D., Rome Mint, null Officina
    3.25g, 21.0mm, 6H

    Obverse: GALLIENVS AVG,
    Head of Gallienus, radiate, right

    Reverse: NEPTVNO CONS AVG,
    Hippocamp or capricorn, right

    Exergue: II

    Provenance: Ex. CNG Electronic Auction 436, Lot 688, Ex. William Whetstone Collection

    Reference: RIC V Gallienus 245


    Julian II the Apostate
    AE Maiorina
    [​IMG]
    361 - 363 A.D., Antioch Mint, 1st Officina
    8.46g, 30.0mm, 6H

    Obverse: D N FL CL IVLI-ANVS P F AVG,
    Bust of Julian, pearl-diademed, draped, cuirassed, right

    Reverse: SECVRITAS REI PVB,
    Bull, standing right, head front; above, two stars

    Exergue: -/-//(palm branch left)ANTA(palm branch right)

    Provenance: Ex. CNG Auction 406 Lot 797

    Reference: RIC VIII Antioch 216
     
  21. rrdenarius

    rrdenarius non omnibus dormio Supporter

    The top coin looks good to me. It looks like all of the edge issues are in part of the coin that has no features. If the rest of the coin looks as good as the top of the head, I'd give the coin a thumbs up.
    I run across edge issues on cast coins a lot. My first choice is to but round coins, but sometimes I buy less than round pieces.
    DSCN2399.JPG DSCN2398.JPG DSCN0932.JPG DSCN0933.JPG
    Some are less round than others.
    DSCN0744.JPG DSCN4407.JPG
     
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