EBAY's blatant disregard of the Law is helping kill numismatics

I think the US needs to ban all websites that sell counterfeit everything. And have the banks not do business with counterfeit companies, countries or company/countries that do business with them. Shut down their sales and they might redo their business practices in relation to the world to help protect patents, copyrights, etc. If they aren't going to change, get them in their pocketbook.

Also extremely high fines of anyone knowing selling or distributing the junk too. make it not worthwhile.

I guess we can dream right ?

 

Log in or Sign up to hide this ad.

To mirror what @baseball21 said a couple posts back, this would be rife for abuse at the highest levels. The power is in the hands of the people who determine what is counterfeit, not the government that will be enforcing it.

 

then (devils advocate) why have patents, copyrights and all that ?
eliminate all of the intellectual property and let the companies / markets at it.

Right now counterfeits are determined by laws, patents and copyrights.
What we have are companies/gov't that don't care.

Not just coins, but anything else you can imagine. Sometimes the counterfeits cause consumer safety problems ... so much for those laws. maybe abolish all safety laws too as we don't want gov't to have the power, let the ppl decide what kills them or not, or whether they even know it can.

 

Patents and copyrights apply to things that can objectively be seen as identical, close enough or not. That doesn't apply to the area of antiques and collectibles. You can't copyright a coin in your collection, but you can patent a new method for making coins

 

Good to know there's no laws or anything then for older stuff.
it's totally legal then to make ones own "older" coins and paper money and use it.
Think it's time to start printing my own 1960 money and tell ppl to get over it when they aren't educated enough to notice it's fake.

make some of those $500 and $1000 bills while I'm at it.

 

In what sense does an item listed on eBay "pass through their hands"? They never take physical possession of any listed item (except maybe through their managed international shipping service, and none of the "China Post" items go through that).

I'd love for eBay to do a better job of policing fakes, but I don't expect it. These fakes are super-visible to us, because we're knowledgeable in this particular area. But eBay can't afford to hire experts to police every counterfeitable item category on their site -- in fact, I'll bet counterfeit coins are a drop in the bucket compared to, say, designer clothing and accessories.

I'd also love it if eBay were more responsive to reports of fakes. But, as others in the thread have pointed out, that's ripe for abuse as well.

I don't know the answer. I'm frustrated, too. But I'm not seeing the magic wand eBay can wave to make it all better.

 

eBay doesn't have a clue about what's legit and what's not.
Why?
Because they have no intent of hiring people who do.
eBay totally depends on its users to report problem items.
(That doesn't include items that have blanket bans: Cuba, guns, etc.)
But if an item is reported they then have confirm the truth of the report.
If they don't go through the confirmation process some sellers will report anything, legit or not, that is in competition with their listings.
By the time eBay figures that out it may be too late.

 

Yea, it's a little bit different with legal tender lol

 

Funny .
People edited about fakes .
When moonlight mint, gets theirs graded and slabbed .

 

And Banksy auctions stuff for millions while "other spray-painting vandals" get sent to jail.

 

China not helping the hobby either.

 

This sounds like a new way to bamboozle the folks: program your device to claim authentic rare collectibles as fakes, then offer to take the item off the owner's hands. Sounds like a plan.

In all seriousness, I wonder how many of the hundreds of IHCs I own are fakes; probably most of them?

 

"In what sense does an item listed on eBay "pass through their hands"?"
it shows up on their site and, don't forget, they will make their fee on the sale. So they are profiting from an illegal sale. it is not physically in their hands, but it does "pass through" their site, their control, their pocket book.
there are other things they prohibit from sale on their site, so they are able to do something.... if they choose to. They just need incentive enough that they will choose to.

 

I recently found a seller selling 1oz fake silver bars, the seller had them listed in the silver bullion category but hid the fact that they were fakes at the very end of their description.
I contacted the seller pointed out that selling fakes was against ebay and federal law. The person responded with a nasty response so I politely told him that he needs to make the fact that it is fake at least in the title because looking at his listing and seeing the current high bid was above spot price, that the current high bidder probably only read the item specifics which states .999 fine and not that it is a fake.

I also told him that if he lists another one, that I would make sure I win the bid and do everything in my power to have him prosecuted and that if he blocks me, I will create another ebay account just so that I can follow through.

The seller has not listed another fake since then and I see his rating is slowly dropping so I am sure the buyers are finding out that his crap is fake.

I was not joking with him and told him fake bullion issue has made the news across the country and would contact his local media if I needed too.

This guy thought he could hide the details in an enormous description and in the fine print say..oh by the way these are not real after putting every indication in the item specifics that it was real.

I keep the guys account in my favorites so that I can periodically check to see if he is trying to sell more.

And yes the report tab is useless I have used it lots and lots of times only to watch the fake item sell.

 

way cool on your expertise GDJMSP and being part of that team
Granted it is not realistic to think all fakes would be found. But there should still be reasonable and proper response to the clear violations. As long as they have disincentive (because they profit a fee from the sale) they will do as little as possible.
I think they should be accountable, the same way I am if I take a fake $20 for my goods that I sell and then take it to the bank. That has actually happened to me. I realized it was counterfeit and told the teller I thought it was as I handed it to her. She confirmed it was and I was out $20. BTW it was an employee that took the $20 in the first place. I recognized it as soon as I saw it. I did not try to pass it along. I knew I was out the $20.
Under federal law, the use or attempted use of counterfeit currency is illegal if the person has the intent to defraud the recipient. A conviction for the offense carries up to 20 years in prison and a fine.
In the strictest sense, Ebay uses the fake, as a means of getting their fee.
If there is no penalty for Ebay they will never change. they will just keep pocketing the fee and laugh all the way to the bank.

 

and there should be penalty for the fake makers too!!!!! and the fake sellers!!!!

 

Don't ever do this sort of thing, especially via ebay message. That second part can get you ip banned.

 

A big part of the problem is that ebay does nothing even when an item is listed as a copy or replica. This makes detecting and reporting deceptive listings even harder. It also is another avenue for deceptive sellers to purchase counterfeits.

As far as the copies passing through ebay's hands, it does not matter according to the law. They are providing substantial support of the sellers.
From the hobby protection act; "It shall be a violation of the Act and the regulations promulgated thereunder for a person to provide substantial assistance or support to any manufacturer, importer, or seller of imitation numismatic items, "
This was added to the HPA on Oct.14,2016 so it isn't an old version of the law, someone in high office cared enough to get this passed as law recently.

If anyone wants to post a link to counterfeits on ebay here, I will get them removed. Please include an accurate diagnostic that proves it to be fake.

Technically, we are not supposed to send a counterfeit anywhere except here:
"Surrender the note or coin ONLY to a properly identified police officer or a Secret Service Special Agent, or mail it to your nearest U.S. Secret Service field office."
https://www.treasury.gov/about/orga...ffices/Treasurer-US/Pages/if-you-suspect.aspx
Ebay will refund your money if you do this and follow the procedure.
I am sure they have to investigate every thing they receive. If enough of us were to do this, then the secret service would pressure ebay to make changes so they don't have to deal with us submitting them. You normally get a return address when you make an ebay purchase. It wouldn't take but a couple prosecutions to scare the scammers into stopping.

 

CCF has a robust means of doing this, as long as you provide solid reasoning. Unfortunately diagnostics are only available a little too late.