Ebay...Still a Cherrypickers Paradise 2017'

Wonder if this 09 vdb above in gem ms67+ might not be a good investment
now with all the publicity the 09 vdb is getting from this and other threads!!

 

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That thing is the numismatic equivalent of hunting crow with a cannon.

 

Gorgeous!!
There are MS monsters from those two years that definitely have the look. Would make for a beautiful "Poor Man's MPL Set". Even so, still not cheap.

 

I don't know what ever happened to this one. It belonged to a buddy of mine while it was in an NGC MS67*RB slab. At the time it was a Pop 1/0.
Unfortunately it isn't a VDB.

 

This one is on there also...Can you see the round rims on both them coins Just Asking...????????

 

Easily spotted on the PCGS coin. The NGC coin is tougher, but there are some beveled areas. Both are beautiful MS67's

 

NGC holders hide half the rims though. Why they can't figure that out I do not know

 

Little easier to tell with this photo - Click to enlarge

 

I got money that says if NGC turns that white insert Clear they will make a difference in the way people submit their coins (PCGS or NGC) any takers...?$?$?$?$?$?

 

Those two ms67+ 09 Lincolns would make a monster pair; one with vdb and one
without; take a look at the following 38d pcgs ms67+ buff now on flea bay:
asking price for this monster is $1,189.99 while the pcgs posted value on their
website is around $1900. For all the world this looks like an ms68 to me and
is indistinguisable from 1n ms68.

 

Larry -- here is a coin currently on flea bay that has really sharp rims like a
matte proof. You do not run across business strikes like this that often.

 

large pictures of above, note those rims

 

That's all the reason to cut out the Rims as a identifier of MPL's...All coins were struck in 1909,1909 S,1909 VDB,1909 S VDB--1909 MPL, 1909 VDB MPL that's alot of designs and work anybody could have made a mistake back then they are called "Mint Errors" and with the High demand back then I think they did make some mistakes and to see all these Business Strikes with these Proof rims makes you wonder how many Proofs don't have the RIM...????

 

I think the placement of the dot after the D is where the Real Difference can be seen when it comes to being one of the True Identifiers...LP

 

Larry, you seem to be letting your 'desire' get into the logic of the situation. Look at the number of proof cents produced in 1909 compared to the # of business strikes produced . Authors have commented that the mint had difficulty of meeting the need of business strike Lincoln cents for the population. The percentage of proof cents for collectors was just a small portion of production.

The more logical scenario is that after the proofs were minted ( all with proof rims) the dies, still capable of producing cents were used to produce the needed business strikes but some of the proof rim and other characteristics remained on the business strikes, but not the preparation and care of production of a proof. Thus I doubt any proof really had business rims but the reverse was more likely.

 

The rims of this 1909 are very nice, they are still not cut razor sharp like an MPL's rims. There is a definite difference. The true tell is still the diagnostics.

 

We need to also keep in mind in 1909 the master hub was fresh - brand new. It produced well-defined working hubs and dies. Add to that the Mint's desire to make world class coins with the introduction of the Lincoln cent.

I do believe they also likely retired the proof dies to production or they experimented with using the matte finish on working dies. There are so many examples of business strikes with proof characteristics....but that doesn't make them proofs. Robec is showing everyone REAL MPL's - take note.

 

yea I understand the look of a well taken care of Proof..But what about the ones that didn't get the proper care..Like You said the Great Depression just may have sent alot of coins into circulation and the work of Coin Roll Hunters just may have put them back in collections,just look at the Quality of the ones graded some look like candy others look like they been in a fire..And as far as the records go I think the first Matte Proof that got Graded was the winner of the contest if you didn't look like him you weren't Real "Think About It" we're to many coins short 420/1,194 what ever the numbers are we still need to see more coins...And if a new 1909 die was discovered why can't it be the same for the VDB....????? I'm Just Saying....

 

Desertgem
So your saying that it was different Planchets Proof & Business Strike...???? so when they ran out of BS Planchets they started using Proof Planchets....??????

 

I here the Department of the Treasury has a Forensic Division in Washington, DC
You want answers that's the place to start...Matter of fact I just might send them my VDB .. I Bet They Know How Many Dies Were Used & When They Were Used... Noooooooooo You All Sucking Me Into This Matte Proof Vortex and I said I wasn't going to go there with you guys...I GOTTA SNAP OUT OF IT FAST are I'm Going to go spend over $100,000.00 on #9 coins my wife going to KILL ME...LOL....!!!!!!