eBay shipping costs

That is funny. I have watched eBay S&I cost dramatically drop once eBay cracked down on them. That is until the post office raised their rates, but insurance, priority, and overweight sure went up.

 

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This is my final word on the matter... I think that I have gotten too worked up over this. I mean when I think about it I have before and already since paid shipping charges in excess of $2.50. So the seller charged me $2.00 for their time, I can live with that (after hours of consuling and group therapy) and I will let it go. I would just like to point out for the record that eBay's rules state ( http://pages.ebay.com/help/tutorial/feecirctutorial/intro.html )

"Seller can only charge the actual amount it costs to package and ship the item. A small handling fee may also be applied for the amount of time spent packaging and preparing the item for shipment.

However, any additional fees associated with printing supplies, the cost of gas, or the amount of time spent waiting in line at the post office should be built into the starting price of the listing. Such fees are associated with the cost of doing business, and are not considered part of the handling fee. Seller is not permitted to include the cost of business in the shipping and handling charges, since this is a form of fee circumvention and can be misleading to buyers. "

So when the seller of this item told me that the extra money for gas and time at the post office was figured into the price of shipping they were wrong.

That's it. It's out of my system. I am going to e-mail the seller and explain to them that I was put off by the shipping charge and that for my money I expected something more than a #10 envelope. I have to admit that other than that this was a great seller. I bought the item on thursday and had it in my hands on monday. It's this whole shipping thing, I think I'm takeing out my frustration on the wrong person.

 

If you are selling through an auction, then don't whine if you don't get what you want for the price. Set your reserve higher to cover your operating costs. Don't hide them in shipping and handling fees. I don't buy from Heritage, because I don't collect what they sell.

Agreed. I take the total price into account when I bid. If your shipping is inflated, then I bid less on the item and if I don't win it, then good for you. Get what you can for the item, but don't play numbers games to hide behind shipping and handling.

Don't get me wrong. I don't find $2.50 or $2.50 or even $5.00 to be excessive. But don't charge $2.50 for an envelope and a stamp. Likewise, don't charge $12 to ship 5 coins domestically. Heck, I can ship an entire box of books to Western Canada for that price.

Couldn't have said it better myself.

Don't read me wrong. I''m not entirely arguing with you. I don't mind reasonable shipping rates, and I don't mind paying for the service I get (overnight, priority shipping, etc.), but don't charge me for one service, and then send it a cheaper alternative, just to pad your profit margin, and don't tell me that your selling price doesn't cover the cost of ink and labels. If you're running a business, that's part of your standard operating costs, and should be covered by your profit margin, not added onto each and every sale.

Admittedly, this isn't quite as bad as the Canadian cell phone business where a $35 plan costs over $50.

 

Self lock shipping boxes free from the post office? New to me.
I could find these only at a stationary store (no names - rhymes with Maples.)
They are extremely sturdy for their size.

 

The fact that $2 is being spent to go to the post office is a "Handling" cost, and it is perfectly fair to charge that in Shipping and Handling costs! If shipping costs are listing upfront and as mentioned previously and you do decide to bid on the item, you are agreeing to pay whatever overhead the seller has asked for, being in the price of the item or in the shipping... so there is no point complaining afterwards! That is why same as you, I never buy anything which doesnt have shipping terms mentioned.
My only gripe is when I have paid $5 for Priority shipping and end up with a mail sent first class, THATS when the seller is breaking a contract!

 

http://shop.usps.com/webapp/wcs/sto...4&parent_category_rn=11820&top_category=11820

these boxes are free but have to be mailed priority...

 

I thought I was done, but I guess not. ebay rules specifically say, as I mentioned above, that you can not charge for time or expenses incured by going to the post office as handling. They MUST be included in the starting bid of the auction. If you want to sell a coin and you know that you will spend $2.00 going to the post office then the starting price of the auction should be "item cost + $2.00"

Keep in mind, I'm not saying anything about packaging. If you have to go out and buy a $3.00 box from staples to ship my item in, then I'm on the hook for $3.00. That is absolutly a shipping cost.

The easiest way to say this is that overhead is to be included in the price of the item and not in the cost of shipping.

 

I agree that buyers know up-front what the cost of shipping is before they buy. You can always choose not to buy. I have passed up a number of auctions because the shipping and handling charge was excessive. For some auctions (like selling presidential dollars for $0.99) making a profit on shipping seems to be the entire point of the auction.

However, for my own personal sales, I follow the principle that I charge only what the shipping costs me. I just feel that it's wrong to make a huge profit on shipping. I've considered suggesting that eBay have a certification for auctions with "at cost" shipping.

 

A few things you are forgetting, however, is this is not a brick and mortar establishment. In fact, you did not even buy the item via what is traditionally considered a "retail establishment". The closest you can consider analogical to eBay auctions is a mail order service. In considering "shipping" for an item, you do not consider simply the postage. When the charge is simply the "actual postage" paid, the term "postage" and not "shipping" is quite frequently used. Shipping includes the entirety of the actual postage plus costs of materials, ie. envelope, padding/filling, tape, and other packaging materials. "Insurance" is normally a separate consideration (thus the terms of "S/H/I" or "SH&I") but is sometimes included in the "shipping" or "handling". A "handling" fee is what is normally considered the processing fee.

This is where many people become upset and disillusioned regarding "mail/online order". Like was previously stated:

In a "brick-and-mortar" situation, there is no "handling" fee because there is no extra handling of the object (unless you want gift wrap in which many places do charge fees for the handling and packaging of the item). In a "mail-order" situation (like eBay auctions), there is special handling required, ie. employee time to transport packages to/from the post office or shipping center, the gasoline involved in such transportation, processing of the request in the form of customs paperwork, tracking and confirmation filings, etc, as well as the employee time of processing and tracking the delivery.

This extra work of handling the item does not exist in the "brick-and-mortar" scenario, for the most part. And if the customer does walk in and request such services, do you really believe that they will do it all for free? Of course not. There will be the extra handling charges involved as well as actual postage. This cost won't be included in the price of the item itself. These are costs above and beyond the actual selling price of the item.

The "overhead" of "running" an "eBay business" are in the listing fees as well as the final value fees (which are only charged IF the item sells). Most retail pricing mark-up will only be around 30% of the cost of product. When selling a low cost item on eBay, the overall percentage of the cost of item in terms of fees (overhead) can easily exceed 10% of the cost of the item.

Now, being that eBay auctions do not work on a traditional "mark-up" pricing scheme, but rather a "market driven" pricing scheme, there is not an absolute price to set to determine your "proper mark-up" to make an acceptable "retail" profit. You are NOT purchasing items retail when using eBay auctions.

Even a traditional "mail order" company runs their business retail in the fact that there are set and seller controllable prices involved in their sales. Yet, even they still charge for the handling of the product from their distribution to the customer. The handling is there because the seller takes the item to the buyer rather than the buyer going to the seller for the item.

And there is where the misconception lies. The belief that the seller should absorb the cost of the item being delivered by a third party to the buyer. Would you rather pay the airfare and rental car charges to get to the seller and pick the item up in person? Of course not. That is why you are paying the handling fee to the seller. So that he will take the responsibility of making sure the item makes it to the buyer.


Now, with all that said:

You must understand that prices and regulations are set by the shipping outfit. The price of shipping with the USPS has skyrocketed since 1997. Each year, the costs go up. To send an item via a flat rate Priority Mail envelope with the proper Delivery Confirmation (to ensure delivery as it is the legal obligation of the seller), and Insurance costs a minimum of $6.90 to ship within the United States. Now is this the fault of the seller? Should the seller then be required to absorb the $5 so that the S/H/I is "reasonable" for a small set of 5 or 6 coins?

The argument would be "then just send it First Class". Okay, this works well for anything under 14 ounces. But once you hit more than 13 ounces, you are required to pay Priority Mail rates. Then, take a look at what is legally required of you for first class mail as a seller under a legal contract with the buyer.

If you think that you can just mail your items to buyers without confirmation of mailing, you are dead wrong. Using eBay auctions binds you legally as a seller (and buyer) to ensure that the "advertised" product is received by the buyer. eBay auctions are legal contracts. If you do not perform, and be able to prove you performed, your legal obligations under the contract, you open yourself up to not only an action of tort, but quite possibly criminal action for mail fraud and the intent to defraud if the USPS is mentioned anywhere in the contract.

Let's take a 4 ounce package as our example. The seller would need to pay the First Class Package postage which is $1.64 (USPS regulations require Package rates for any item that is rigid, rounded, or otherwise irregular). The packaging required for package rate must be at least 3/4" thick. Thus you need a bubble mailer (any insurance or other liability for the package will be void if a regulated item was sent Letter rate instead of Package rate) of at least 3/4" thickness. This could easily run you another $.30-$.40 for the mailer. Now, you need to have proof of mailing. If you are obtaining insurance for the item, the Insurance form is now proof of mailing and the cost will only be $1.65 minimum. Otherwise, Certificate of Mailing is $1.05 and Delivery Confirmation is only $0.75, so we take the Delivery Confirmation since it is also proof of mailing. Also, if you do both a Delivery Confirmation AND Insurance, then you need a bigger mailer to accommodate the forms.

Now, we add all that up and the MINIMUM cost to ship (and absorb things such as processing time, delivery time to the shipping outfit, and gas), minimum insured comes to $3.59 out of pocket, and non-insured is $2.69. Now, as we all know, very few people "do it right". So, in the case where the item came to you in a paper envelope and no security (nor proof of mailing), then I wouldn't blame you too much for getting a little upset.

But, then you have to really think this over again too. The seller opened himself up to possible legal action and left himself at your grace and mercy to be honest and even acknowledge that you received the item just so you might save a buck or two on what it should have cost to ship your item to you legally and within regulation.

In fact, you never should have received the coin as someone at the USPS somewhere along the trail should have had the item sent back to the seller for insufficient postage. The item was rigid and most likely was not the required 3/4" thick as required by USPS regulations. You should really consider yourself lucky (as I had received a package back for re-mailing last month because it was not thick enough).

Personally, my post office here is anal when it comes to regulations. It's only going to be a matter of time before the rest of the country's Post Offices start being the same way.

 

+1

Better yet, do like some shopping search engines, and give a "final cost" which is the cost of the item + any shipping and handling fees. Transparency. I like that word.

 

I keep talking... I tell myself I shouldn't but I keep doing it... I'm over the problem with my auction. The fact that it came in a first class envelope just hit my buttons...

I think there is a concept that people are not quite getting here. It may be a buyer/seller mentality type thing.

As a buyer I understand, and even accept that I will pay charges for shipping. I do not think it would be right for a seller to have to absorbe charges. BUT, and this is a big BUT, I feel that I should only have to pay acceptable charges (and I am backed by ebay rules on this matter). If the seller will only ship by priority mail, and useing delivery conf and insurance, and they say this in the auction, If I want the item, I will gladdly accept those conditions. What I should not have to pay for, IN SHIPPING CHARGES, is gas going to a fro from the post office and time spent in line at said post office.

People on ebay want to buy something for as cheep as possible. ebay rules say that you must include overhead and gas/time at post office in the auction cost, not fees. If you know that you will spend $2.00 in gas/time then you item should be listed as at least $2.00.

I see it from a sellers point of view, too. As a seller, you know that the only way you are going to sell something on ebay is to make it as inexpensive as possible. If you start including these fees in the auction costs, the amount you pay ebay will go up, your auctions will start higher, and most likely less people will bid on them. This is a flaw in the ebay system, but this is the cost of doing business on ebay. Trying to make up the cost of ebay fees in the shipping price of an item is wrong.

I buy a lot of stuff mail order. I just now (while typeing) got a delivery via ups from whitman. I paid 4.95 s/h on the item. According to the UPS website it should have cost $8.95 for shipping. I'm sure that whitman has a bulk deal with UPS or something that lowers costs, but still I feel satisfied that I did not get ripped of on this shipping transaction.

I'm not saying that seller should eat the cost of shipping. They shoud only charge for shipping what it will cost for shipping (ie, boxes, supplies, postage, insurance, etc) and not try and cover costs that should be included in the item price as a means of avoiding ebay fees.

 

They do! It is called handling.

OH! Yes you are.

 

I think everyone see's where you're coming from, d_lairson. The bottom line is, it's just a part of the Ebay experience you're going to have to accept if you plan to do further business there. There are countless pages of Ebay rules and regulations to back up your complaint. But, lets face it, we all know Ebay isn't exactly one to live up to rules, not even their own, as we've seen countless times with plainly fraudulent auctions. It's not going to change, and Ebay isn't going to enforce it.
Guy~

 

None that I know of that support his position. The only thing that supports him are the US Postal regulations. In case you missed my first post, it is against their regs to mail coins in standard envelops. Look it up!

 

rlm:
So, now you are supporting his position.
He did receive the coin in a plain business sized envelope. No padding, no nothing.

 

There is such an easy solution!

Since ebay has absorbed paypal, have them absorb the USPS also. There can be one flat rate for all shipping! No matter the size (within a regulation for maximum) everything shipped costs one low price that is dicatated and regulated in each auction, where the seller cannot change it.

then again, I doubt there would be anymore combined shipping.

 

Problem solved!

 

Not really. Go read the rest of my post including the first.

 

If you look at one of my above message I copy and pasted the rules directly from ebay as to how handling costs figure into auction prices.

Look, if I bought something on ebay. The starting price was $0.99. I bought it for $2.00 and it said that shipping was $5.95, if I wanted the item I would pay for the auction, but what I would expect is that the shipping costs come close to $5.95. I don't want to get my coin in a $0.59 padded envelope with $2.00 postage. Where did my other $3.36 go? ebay specifically says that you cannot include costs for gas, standing in line at the post office, printing costs, labels, etc, in shipping costs. If it did cost you $3.36 to cover gas, time spent at the post office, heck even the time you spent makeing the label and putting together the envelope, those costs should be included in the price of the item. So the starting price should have been $4.35. If you can't sell the item for $4.35 then either your overhead is too high, or there is no demand in the market.

What this comes down to is sellers are trying to make up for the ebay fees in the shipping costs so they can look like they are selling products at low prices. This is wrong, it's fruad against ebay (your not paying the fees for an item that you should be), it's fruad against the IRS (you have unreported income, how many sellers tell the IRS that they made $3.36 off handling?), and it's fruad against the consumers (you are hideing the true cost of an item in its shipping fees).

I know it looks like I'm makeing a big stink over $2.00 but what if I bought something for $100 and the shipping was $20.00? After all the postage and packaging what if the "handleing" cost was $10.00? That's a little more outrageous.

I've said it before, and I truly mean this... I do not want the seller to eat the shipping costs. If it cost $5.95 to ship something I will gladly pay it. But I do not want to pay cost that should be included in the cost of the item for sale.

 

I mean it this time... This is my final word on the matter, then I will let it go...

When I buy something on ebay I take into account the cost of shipping as it is listed in the auction, if it is not listed I ask the seller. If it is too high for me I won't bid on the auction. When I do pay the shipping fee I expect that the bulk of the fee to go towards the actual shipping costs. I actually expect, and I am OK with paying a small, reasonable handling fee. But on this item 85% of the shipping fee went towards "handling". That is excessive. Maybe this is a bad example or a one time thing.

I bought a 1976-s quarter on eaby for $3.51... $0.01 for the coin, and $3.50 for shipping. Shipping actually cost something like $2.89 (or something, with insurance and such) which ment there was a 17% handling fee. That is reasonable.

(let me worn you, math is not my strong suit so some of these figures could be off)

That's it I'm done!