EBAY SELLER, AT COINS!

They must have been cleaned and are still uncirculated. but they don't because they were cleaned.

 

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Same person as edynamicmarketing. William Ficka in Orlando FL. Has more than one eBay user name. Bought toned slabs from me under both names. Trying to cover up the AT crap hiding around some real to get over on the unknowing. Gets to many bad ratings new names I suspect. eBay just wants their fees they don't care.

 

If you don't think the listing is suitable contact ebay with your complaint. If the seller gets enough complaints he'll be banned. I myself would never buy that coin. What the seller should do is put it up for bid starting at .99 cents an see what he could get for it based upon its Silver content.

 

I would like to see one in hand but I can't pay that price with those pictures just see one. If he offered them at auction below melt I'm sure he'd get a small premium above melt on each but those prices are unrealistic.

 

Well, if we're going to police Ebay via rules of morality rather than legality - since artificial toning isn't "illegal" by any definition - we should also ban any coins whose grade is misrepresented in any fashion (once we decide who gets to set the grading standard, which we haven't yet successfully in the history of numismatics), any starting price or Buy It Now we consider excessive for the coin in question, and maybe just any coin we don't like to take this reductio ad absurdum to its' logical conclusion.

While we're at it, we should ban any car which has been repainted in a color other than original, and maybe all the watches which no longer have the factory band on them.

 

While I agree with your main point, I'd vote for a different analogy, at least until there's a market consensus that repainting a used car immediately reduces its value by 75%.

 

I ran a spectroscopic analysis on 20 OF the the jpgs and I would bet my 1893S that 18 were ATS AND POOR AT THAT. See the jpgs I have uploaded and pay particular attention to the Sunnywood chart and the True NT and see if you can tell the difference.
As far as banning the only thing that must be and never will is ignorance of the facts which is the only reason that a newbie would get taken in by these clowns.
M1

 

I was in Hong Kong at the Embassy (1956) and would spent my leisure time perusing the local coin shops looking for and finding MS grade US Morgans that were mostly beautifully toned due to all the MSG and Sulphur compounts the Chinese us in everyday life.
These IMO were NT as they would just sit there and paint themselves for 15-20 years (When all the Gold and Silver was recalled in 30s the chinese hoarded American coins) but just for the intrinsic value (2-3 bucks or so per oz.) as they could care less about toning.
Even a lot of their coins were toned as we call it, and are worth a fortune today IF THEIR NOT FUGAZIs.
All Coin collectors must study the history before the present or expect to remain ignorant, lose money but maybe happy??
I hope I didnt upset anyone, just trying to educate.
M1

 

Superdave hit the nail with the hammer. It is not illegal.
The old saying "A sucker born every minute.....and two to take them" comes into affect in life everywhere. Coins and crooks dealing in them is a learning experience within the field. I feel sorry for the non knowing getting taken, but that's life. We all had to learn some way to even discuss AT coins. Ban the painted cars I want a rust bucket.

 

Have you watched any episodes of Cars, rods, etc. on velocity (Comcast cable) on West Coast. A lot of those rust buckets are bringing 2000% more than when new.
My 1940 Lincoln Coupe is booked at 22K. (Who knew ??)
M1

 

With the understanding that it makes me throw up in my mouth a little to take this position....

If there were "market consensus" that artificial toning reduces the value by 75% (just to throw out a number, which I personally tend to agree with), nobody would buy them. Unfortunately, another thing which isn't and can't be "illegal" in numismatics is collectors who either don't know or don't agree with the "mainstream" regarding pricing. This crap wouldn't sell if that were true.

And if it isn't selling - I haven't put any research into finding out one way or the other - then why are we wasting time arguing about it?

And yeah, my arguments above were absurd. That was my point.

 

SuperD
The points you have made are right on the mark. I listen to both sides and understand these arguments with a caveat or two (always). First of all to define why we (experienced collectors, Dealers, Etc.) are even arguing, quibbling, caring about this toning (thing) is because a lot of the use to be purists are are crapping on the IDEA and HISTORY of numismatics for the sake of personal gain and ATing is the train their riding into town on (I like metaphors) and some of us/them . are a tad bit envious.
It can not and will not be made illegal nor should it IMO but if a lot of us agree that knowledge of what is AT/NT is the way to turn this swan into an ugly duck it will go the way of the Hula Hoop.
The knowledge is out there it just has to be organised and presented but like Politics there will be blowback when you ruffle feathers as we all know.
Dont mean to be dramatic but I have read the "Art of War " twice, and the first rule is "know thy en----" well you know!!
Anyway thats my four cents (inflation) and I am trying to keep in mind that THIS IS A HOBBY. phew tired Im going to bed
M1

 

by the way, i never said that AT coins are illegal
or that they should be illegal. what i said was
that the seller is trying to pass off AT coins as
natural toning. and making claims that the coins
maybe worth hundreds or even thousands of dollars.
that is what is wrong with the sellers listing practices,
not that he is selling AT coins.

 

You know and I know what he is up to. But I re-examined his site: He is making no claim whatsoever that the coins are naturally toned. He is depending upon an ASSUMPTION by the buyer.

He also isn't claiming any value. He simply asks why pay hundreds or thousands of dollars for a slabbed coin when you can buy one of his and get it slabbed yourself.

He is a Slick Willie for sure and is toeing a chalk line. But I dont see anything illegal he's doing, even though he's coated with a layer of slime three feet thick.

 

Has anyone considered that maybe some people just like the look of those? The premiums being paid seem to be modest at best and in some cases almost nonexistent

 

I for one, love any toned coins NT of course. I bought my first coins in Hong Kong while being stationed there and didnt even know what a "Toner" was at least in the modern vernacular and at the present own more than 400 of them which is rather modest due to the fact I have been collecting for 55 Yrs. I have invested in spectrographic equipment to test a image of any coin or series of colors and tell you exactly within 5-6 a.units what the coin is made of, % of mix Au/cu, unnatural substance, depth of refractivity and if the color pattern being REFRACTED is NT/AT 90% of the time and if I could afford a Mass Spectrometer 99%. BUT BUT (always a but) IF the Chemist is good at developing the proper mixture AND uses electrolysis those odds drop to 50-60% depending on his/her skill.
I have put in many thousands of hours understanding this and love the coins but I think being as trained as I was love the thrill of the hunt (discovery) Now before I step down (off my soap box) I will state and bet my butt on the fact that. 70 to 90% of the Fugazys can be detected by the refracted color (machine) and at least 40-50% by eye alone if you know the color precedent pattern that I have posted.
Night all
M1

 

I'd like to hear more about your test equipment. When you said "test an image of any coin", you did mean testing the coin directly, not from a photo, right?

 

As everyone knows there are tons of AT coins in top tier TPG slabs. When you see an ASE that looks like it was painted by Picasso in a slab and it's only a few years old do you question the color or how it toned so fast? really the pictures are so bad you should run. The coins are common dates and all priced the same by multiple sellers with the same exact listings. Really Stevie could tell these aren't natural. I wish they would show one picture of what any of them will look like in hand. I also bet they are buying and reselling them from someone.
Here's something for you to check out. If you have the Wish app on your phone search for Morgan Dollars and you will see where chinese fakes come from as they have hem on there for a few $'s each the same ones being passed off on eBay.

 

I know. I hate that you can't simply block or minimize a particular seller's items when doing a search. Ebay probably thinks making this convenient minimizes sales but it's more likely it would do the opposite, since more buyers would be happier and frequent the site more

 

Once you click it and look at alerts, they should go away next time. Hopefully you don't have a lot of alerts always generating, since I'm unsure how to stop that