EBAY SELLER, AT COINS!

Why, exactly, is that legally actionable? If you're this convinced on the subject - despite the fact that every other participant in the thread disagrees with you - why don't you just initiate the legal action yourself?

 

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If he tells you it is a stock picture and not necessarily the coin you will be receiving, then yes. And that does happen on ebay.

Does he say that PCGS and NGC will slab them as problem free? No. Does he say that once you do sent his coins to PCGS or NGC they WILL be worth hundreds or thousands of dollars? No. So he still isn't making any promises that he isn't delivering on.

No one has suggested otherwise. That's where caveat emptor comes into play.

 

Say? No, he doesn't, but he does suggest as much....

"WHY PAY HUNDREDS EVEN THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS ON EBAY FOR A SIMILAR COIN ALREADY GRADED BY PCGS, NGC OR ANACS when you can buy this coin and submit it for grading"

It's a sucker bet, plain and simple, and one designed to lure the deal seekers with the fresh baited hook of extraordinary returns for little work, knowledge, or effort. Personally, I feel no sympathy for such people, but the potential for by-catch is unfortunate and is another black eye on this hobby.

As you said though, caveat emptor.... anyone buying such coins expecting a gifted windfall, deserves a little hard-earned lesson imo.

 

Hasn,t it always been illegal to deface U S coins and Currency?

 

It would be nice if Ebay enforced that rule; this is something we agree on totally.

They don't.

 

Yes stock images are against ebay rules, but a lot of people still use them. And some even tell you they are stock images.

Coins no*, currency yes**.

* In the latter part of the 19th century it was for a short time illegal to deface coins. That was to combat the love token fad that took off in a big way. That law was repealed long ago. It was illegal to melt down silver coins in the late 1960's, that was repealed in the early 1970's. It is currently illegal to melt down cents and non-silver five cent pieces. Other than that, as long as there is no fraudulent intent you can pretty much do anything you want to your coins.

** It is illegal to deface currency in such a way as to render it unfit to be reissued.

Yep it's a sucker bet, but it isn't fraud.

 

jtlee321:

You've expressed my feelings about his pictures. I think he may just take lousy pictures. Some of his coins are certified by PCGS and the toning looks terrible in his pictures. If they really looked that bad in person, I'm sure PCGS would have bagged them or at the very least listed altered surfaces.

 

Seems this debate comes up alot on Cointalk. Also seems simple. Don't like em, don't buy em. Think the seller is shady? Don't give him your money. Easy as that.

 

if all of you think what the seller is doing breaks no rules
or laws, then what would any of you consider mail fraud?

 

just one more question. why does most everybody
these days seem to think that it is okay for anyone
to do most anything they want? how do people arrive
at that type of thinking? i don't understand it.

 

https://postalinspectors.uspis.gov/investigations/MailFraud/fraudschemes/FraudSchemes.aspx

 

Once again, no overt fraud is on the seller's listings. That goes for every type of laws covering fraud.

 

I agree with you fully. And you cannot pass a law regulating every form of human endeavor. Personal ethics are required. Otherwise the question is asked "what's illegal about this" and if the answer is "no" all bets are off and anything goes.

 

Exactly. Otherwise the question isn't what is illegal but rather what is actually legal. Ethics are already a grey area that vary from person to person, trying to regulate that would be a nightmare.

 

A real grey area. Ethics is either something a person has or doesn't have. You can't regulate it. Attorneys have an ethics code. Consult your State Bar Association's docket of attorney discipline cases to see how foolproof that method is.

 

This seller needs to be expunged from eBay. He has almost single-handedly ruined the toned coin market. Every coin he sells has been AT'd. It's quite obvious if you have a set of eyes; every coin has the same toning progression and colors. From recently struck, non-reactive Washington's to "sealed" proof sets.

I wish I could be blocked from seeing any of his listings. I have to scroll through hundreds of trash listings to get to what I'm looking for.

 

Exactly, all you really end up doing is regulating the punishments not changing the behavior

 

another thing ruining ebay is that bell,
the ebay alert bell found on my ebay at
the top of the page. there is no way to
shut it off.

 

One theory about ethics is that there should be no codes at all since, some people think, if it's not unethical under the code, it must be OK. Instead, the theory says, the ethics of a particular action should be judged on a set of general principles and disciplined on a case by case basis. Nice theory but not sure it would work.