eBay: Risk of a fake

I don’t know, I’m out of my depth with these. Based on the other categories I’ve looked at, I think it is safe to assume the chance of fake increases significantly with price. Unless sold by a known reputable dealer or in a verifiable slab, an expensive coin on eBay is a risky proposition.

 

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glad Im a cheapskate lol

but that isnt always the case I bought a fake Marcus Aurelius when I first started collecting( I didn't know what I know now). it was a bit on the inexpensive side. I don't even think it was cast- I think it was a pressed fake( that was supposed to have at lease a little silver and it didn't). Pressed fakes are pretty hard to detect since they don't have casting bubbles or lines

 

Ah. Ebay. The great underarm of the coin collectors world! I think just about everything has been said about it before, but often there are new collectors who dont look through old threads, and sometimes others dont comment so I will take a stab here.

Ebay can be a good place to get your 'feet wet'. But for us older collectors we remember a time when fakes were extremely rare and replicas were scarce (compared to the genuine examples on the market). We have to adjust our current thinking to what is happening in the collecting world in general. A great many people are getting exposed to ancient coins through Ebay and no other place. That is just a fact. And it's a minefield.

The numbers presented in these threads are likely very close to reality. There is an old saying in this hobby, 'if you've never bought a fake you are not buying enough coins'. I think in this day and age that should be re-adjusted to 'you will definitely buy a fake at some point'.

CT is full of stories about uber cheap bargains and ultra rare coins found amongst Ebays listings and just as many about fakes they were stuck with. But CT is a good place to simply ask. Take a screen shot and show us the photo and most often we can identify the most obvious fakes and frequently the less obvious ones as well.

But then again Ebay combined with Paypal has really good buyer protection. I've never thought twice about buying on Ebay as I know I can send it back if it turns out to be fake (as long as the seller allows returns, if they dont that is a big red flag). I've bought many coins there that looked 'iffy' in the photo, but I bought them anyway as I had no fear that I could not get my money back. I've been buying on Ebay since its inception and have only bought several fakes, a couple I sent back, a couple I kept as experience, a few the seller refunded back but did want the coin in return.

But then there was one time I bought a South Italian skyphos (a wine cup), he refused to ship it to me as he did the $1 opening thing and it sold for about $15 (sellers remorse). As consolation he sent me a Marc Antony denarius which turned out to be fake. Didnt get compensation for that situation, but it was only $15 and I decided it was not worth the hassle (he still sells there and is a very popular dealer).

Anyway, I'm rambling. I just thought I would make a couple comments. Ebay is not the place for serious collectors but can be when the buyer has a decent amount of knowledge. I know some have said they cant find coins in their budget elsewhere but they aren't looking closely enough. VCoins as an example has many thousands of inexpensive coins. One just has to search for them just like they do on Ebay.

 

I hate it! I have studied the fake coin images on here, but I literally still can't tell whether one I'm interested in is genuine or not.

So I've generally resorted to ignoring eBay and buying at inflated prices from MA Coins or V Coins.

Whether that's any safer though.... ?

 

I like everything you said Ken except for this one thing.

Please don't repeatedly post eBay coins asking if they are real. And please don't make post after post asking us to look at a particular seller's listings. Instead, read the beginner threads we post repeatedly (like this thread). If after reading all that stuff you still aren't comfortable, just buy from trusted sellers ("know the seller or know the coin") until you are more confident in assessing an offering. What's the rush? Thousands more new listings will appear tomorrow, and the next day, and so on.

Read the board, use CT's search function to learn more, and if you just can't help yourself, send a private message to a member or two asking for their opinion of the coin. The reason for this is that some people just can't refrain from using boards like this as an alternative to doing the work themselves. Some newcomers, regardless of how many times they are advised to "know the coin or know the dealer", no matter how many times they are shown links and threads which answer their questions and provide sources for learning, just can't refrain from endless "is this seller okay", "is this coin okay", "I bought this coin but now I think it may be fake", etc, never really contributing anything but instead perhaps hoping to score nice coins off someone else's knowledge, or maybe they are paralyzed by paranoia about possibly buying a fake (in which case this might be the wrong hobby for them).

Members who use the board in this manner tend to get ignored after a while and CoinTalk has a very handy Ignore function if you want to hide those members.

 

I wouldnt say prices are 'inflated' on non-Ebay venues. Most likely and on average those prices are 'real' retail. If you are looking for lower prices, well, who can say? Sometimes you can get them lower, sometimes higher. One has to know the market. Antinous has been discussed here a few times lately. There was one example sold recently by a major auction house, uber cheap, and about a third to a quarter of what it should have. There was one comment criticizing (I think, maybe it was just pointed out) the new owner for offering it at twice what it sold at auction. It was still cheap at that price. Its one of those auctions I completely missed. I would have bought it and offered at the same or higher than the one who now has it.

As a dealer I have experimented many times with pricing. In the past I have listed coins at 10% or lower than average (or what I even paid) and they still didnt sell. Who can tell why?

Well, I actually agree with this. My comment was made in the spirit of those coins in which are not really obvious (but then that is entirely subjective as well). We here at CT are always willing to help out a fellow collector (or potential collector), but yes, we dont want to see 20 messages a day asking about whether or not a Gloria Romanorum soldiers/standards is genuine or not. It does cloud the spirit of the group, but we are always willing to help.

Also, I do understand what @TIF is saying about some posters. Some always seem to think everything is fake, but then again there is also those who seem to think the obvious fakes are real. Some people just cant be helped.

 

I second these motions.

We are not the only ancient-coin discussion group. Another one is
https://www.coincommunity.com/forum/forum.asp?FORUM_ID=51
which has far more questions asking for help. If you only want help, join that group. However, if you only want help occasionally, we are more than happy to help here.

 

I don't think your average Republican denarii are any more faked than average Imperial denarii on eBay in my experience. Most are perfectly genuine but there are definitely some fakes and certain rarer issues are faked more than others. There are far more RR denarii that are simply overpriced on eBay than that are fake, altered, etc.

 

Here-here!!!
I was JUST about to post a very similar posting, but you beat me to it. You said everything I was just about to state.

In fact in a recent post, I stated a very abridged version, perhaps echoing what had been stated many times before:

“@@Mat has a good eye and is very knowledgable. I trust his opinion among several others here.

I usually do a lot of homework by using the CoinTalk Search in the upper right corner, acsearch.com, wildwinds.com, cng.com, forumancientcoins, wikipedia (quick history), fake reports, look up the terms describing the coin, research the seller, metallurgy, dates, etc. etc. BEFORE I buy. It gives me an acceptable level of confidence.

I will also private message folks that are familiar or experts before I pull the trigger.

I like to KNOW the Seller AND/OR KNOW the coin.

It keeps you from running around with you hair on fire.”
https://www.cointalk.com/threads/i-just-bought-this-otacilia-severa-i-think-its-fake.327453/

Sometimes folks do not heed the advice, seemingly too lazy to research. Feels like they want us to do the work for them, rather than learning for themselves.

I echo the point about the “lgnore” button: if the individual does not at least TRY to use the Search Bar, or search online to get an enormous amount of free information, then I am more inclined to use the Ignore button so that I do not see their questions after questions, over and over again.

 

I completely agree. Asking folks on a forum to authenticate a coin from photos is futile anyway, except in cases of obvious fakes. That was the purpose of my second post, to show there are much better levels of realness readily available to collectors than forum authentification. We can only hope some get the message...

 

Excellent advice, @Alegandron. I didn't see that post before because that thread is hidden from my feed.

 

Going back to the subject of LRB's, I don't think I have seen more than a handful of definite fakes, on ebay or elsewhere? One of the few exceptions are of course the Constantine / Antonius Felix fantasy mule, and there are also fakes of all the "big bucks" ancients--the Constantine standard piercing serpent, Nepotian, Galla Placidia, etc.

Has anyone spotted a fake of a common LRB in the wild?

Also I would like to weigh in that while non-classical numisatics (India and Central Asia in particular) have traditionally been less appealing, I have seen a lot of forgeries popping up, some even being sold by usually reputable sellers.

 

Excellent thread, the series has been an enlightening read (the "lead swabs" for example) so thanks! I've noticed that aside from some rather iconic issues (Istros, Thasos, etc.) many Greeks aren't faked, or at least not to remotely the same degree as Roman coinage, which within the minefield that is eBay is the primary danger for noobs like myself.

Because Romans seem to be far and away the most popular ancient collecting focus, forgers looking for easy money will naturally go where the most inexperienced dollars are concentrated and where their efforts are most likely to be fruitful. The sophistication (to my eye) of some of the Roman fakes is truly frightening. Conversely, in my hunt for coins of Tisna in Aeolis and knowledge about them I've never seen a hint of fakery, and am rather confident that no one will be churning out such obscure limited-market coins anytime soon so it feels like a safer realm for me than the prospect of finding a Caesar elephant denarius or the like.

 

If you haven't spotted one recently, then you are not looking close enough, because they are out there.


15 years ago a bunch turned up mainly in uncleaned lots--
http://www.catbikes.ch/coinstuff/coins-fakes.htm

more recently there are several different types from the "Smederova Hoard" like the coin below-



more from the same "hoard"




a Julian II that only recently turned up



a fake Valens (not so common a coin though)



some really recent fakes-







I could post many more, but suffice to say, there are fake LRB's on eBay. Most are authentic though.

 

Sometimes even if you do know the market you get taken -
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Ancient-Ha...di5eorRXCY%3D&orig_cvip=true&nordt=true&rt=nc

 

Along those same lines, if a person is truly interested in learning to identifying fakes for the benefit of themselves and others, a better process would be to post them at FAC. FAC has an entire message board dedicated to identifying fakes. There are rules though: you can't use the board to screen potential purchases, you can't name the seller or link to the seller, and you must describe why you suspect the coin of being a fake.

This is an excellent process for someone trying to learn to identify fakes because it makes you think. You have to learn to put into words why you are suspicious, and committing to those words makes you think and learn. Some coins can be condemned by their images alone and then you have the satisfaction of adding the fake coin to FAC's Fakes Gallery-- that's one of the primary resources available for hobbyists when it comes to looking for known fakes.

 

Blake, note that the link takes some people to a different coin than the one you intended. It is better to copy and upload the images because the URL changes and eBay images and listings evaporate.

 

You don't have to know the market...all you need to know is that the seller is known for offering fakes. No point in looking at his coins and wondering if maybe it is authentic, just ignore him and his offerings.

 

Yes. You do. Honestly thats a fairly good fake. It would fool quite a lot of people, which is why we need to be here for those who are not as familiar with ancients.

Listening to some music while posting, thought this may be relevant:

 

You can bog down on how good a fake it is or isn't...but as I said it does not matter, because the seller is a well-known fake seller. There are always fakes that can fool people, no matter how well you think you know the market. Bottom line is that coin is from a known fake seller and should be avoided.