eBay purchase question

Discussion in 'Ancient Coins' started by Arcane76, Sep 16, 2020.

  1. Arcane76

    Arcane76 Active Member

    So I bid on and won a Tyre shekel on eBay. I have wanted one for a bit, but they are quite expensive. This one put a dent in my collecting for a bit but not as bad as better ones would have. Getting it in hand I scanned the pcgs barcode(I did enter it manually at their website and it seemed ok before I bid).However I have a couple questions before I crack it out and then can’t return it if needed.
    I looked at Doug Smiths website and saw that their can be double and triple hammered coins etc. Is that what this appears to be?
    EE2A8419-4A4C-4BEA-80A3-A52462E847E2.jpeg
    Also when I scanned the pcgs label it took me to the website and I saw the following: 0C18AA58-BD33-40B9-BF2A-CC7CE5CFAA63.png 4396DFBD-7233-40A5-8F59-49A67AE7FED2.jpeg So the label says 20 BC to 55AD. The pcgs site says 126 BC-55AD also 89- brilliant uncirculated. Minor discrepancy but I don’t want a counterfeit, and I don’t know how to tell. I’m including picture of hologram on back also. Also the inside of holder or the gel part that holds the coin in there looks scratched. So basically I’m asking for opinions on if genuine coin/pcgs holder???
    086F180E-3380-4F7F-BB1E-2AF2C3B9F602.jpeg 82259BDB-689F-4033-87DD-82AF78FDFD09.jpeg C38FD5E5-9B9F-4098-933D-05886205A523.jpeg
    thank you!!!
     
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  3. Arcane76

    Arcane76 Active Member

    Couple of closer pictures of coin:
    A1C3230D-1AB9-4C7B-80FA-318A8ED75D64.jpeg 0FE19F30-0B70-4321-951E-A078FA38B6D8.jpeg
     
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  4. physics-fan3.14

    physics-fan3.14 You got any more of them.... prooflikes? Supporter

    Since when does PCGS do ancient coins?

    I thought they didn't grade/authenticate/encapsulate ancients?
     
  5. ddddd

    ddddd Member

    The holder looks genuine and the website can have typos (even compared to what it says on the label). I have experienced that with US and world coins.

    As far as the coin itself, I'll leave that for those that know these.
     
  6. robinjojo

    robinjojo Supporter! Supporter

    Yes, it definitely was struck at least twice, and the obverse is quite off-center, the reverse less so.

    Are you happy with the coin? Since it is PCGS certified, it should be authentic in or out of the slab.

    If you want something nicer, return the coin and save more money to acquire a more attractive coin. But, if you are just looking for a type coin, it should fill the bill. Better examples are very pricey.

    I'm not familiar with PCGS holders, but from what I see here, it looks okay.

    The error with the date on the PCGS site seems to be a typographical error. The period cited should be 20 BC to 55 AD.
     
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2020
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  7. ddddd

    ddddd Member

    From CIVITAS Galleries:
    "They did do a limited number of slabs of Shekels of Tyre several years back. I think it was for one individual person/company, but I'm not entirely sure. I've had a couple of those PCGS slabbed shekels over the years."

    https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/840698/does-pcgs-grade-and-slab-ancient-coins-like
     
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  8. Brian Bucklan

    Brian Bucklan Well-Known Member

    You can always go to PCGS.com and verify the number on the slab (this one is 13314264). When I did this it came back as a Shekel of Tyre ... so it is authentic.
     
  9. Herodotus

    Herodotus Well-Known Member

    From what I'm understanding is that you have concerns of whether the slab may have been altered, and whether the coin is the same one as the one that PCGS certified.

    Unfortunately, the PCGS databank doesn't provide photographs to confirm it(unlike other grading slab companies such as NGC).

    However when I click on the link for the PCSG #390814 on their page(https://www.pcgs.com/cert/13314264)

    It takes one to this link:

    https://www.pcgs.com/valueview/jerusalem/126bc-55ad-shekel/1366?sn=390814&g=89&h=

    Which then provides this link to an auction record:

    https://www.pcgs.com/auctionprices/...36-7-b-c-very-fine/390814/1183954852484143379

    The coin was claimed to have been sold @ a Stack's Bowers auction on 8/5/2016:

    August 2016 ANA World Coins Auction Anaheim, CA

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]



    Sold $1,527.50
    Est: $300-$500
    LOT DESCRIPTION
    SYRIA. Phoenicia. Tyre. AR Shekel, Year 162 (36/7 B.C.). VERY FINE.

    cf.BMC-26.249,206. Laureate head of Melqarth facing right; Reverse: Eagle standing left on prow of ship, club and date before, letters, monogram and symbol to left and below. Housed in a PCGS Genuine slab, devoid of grade.

    Estimate: $300 - $500.

    VERY FINE.

    Link to Auction page here:
    https://auctions.stacksbowers.com/l...icia-tyre-ar-shekel-year-162-367-bc-very-fine



    THIS IS NOT THE SAME COIN AS YOURS. YOUR SUSPICIONS(WHAT I WOULD CALL SPIDEY-SENSE) HAVE BEEN CONFIRMED. I WOULD REQUEST A RETURN/REFUND IMMEDIATELY.
     
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2020
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  10. dbc99

    dbc99 Active Member

    I don't know enough to comment about the coin in the OP itself, but the auction listing in the previous post is for a completely different coin (Cert # 13327441). It's just the PCGS # which is identical, which I believe is just an ID for a particular coin type. So this particular auction listing can't be used as proof either way.
     
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  11. ddddd

    ddddd Member

    The coin you linked is a different cert number: 13327441 than the coin in the original post (13314264). When clicking on all auction records, PCGS shows all sales that it has in its database. The originally posted coin does not have a prior sale linked.
     
  12. Ignoramus Maximus

    Ignoramus Maximus Well-Known Member

    According to PCGS the OP's coin was never auctioned before. It's simply a listing of similar shekels that have been sold. So there are no grounds for suspicion on that count.
     
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  13. Herodotus

    Herodotus Well-Known Member

    Noted.

    I now see that the coin cert. #s are different for the two coins.

    So, perhaps the PCGS #390814(and link) is merely only a reference # to the coin type then? A random example?



    Slabbing ancients is for the squares. :cool:
     
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  14. Nemo

    Nemo Well-Known Member

    This coin is certainly authentic. Sometimes the dates on these issues are a little tough to decipher. I would guess the description as follows: Date CY 146 (AD 20/21). Laureate head of Melkart right, lion skin around neck / Eagle standing left on prow; palm frond in background; to left, PMς (date) above club; to right, KP above monogram.

    A nice catch and not a very common date.
     
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  15. ddddd

    ddddd Member

    First, you are correct that PCGS #390814 is merely the reference to all coins of this type. The Cert # (13314264) is the reference to this specific coin.

    With PCGS, if there is a sale for the coin you are looking up in their database, then that will be linked on the first page (where I circled the "None found" portion). The link below that takes you to all sales of the same type of coin that are in the PCGS database.
    Now one still has to be careful and compare any linked sale to the coin you have as sometimes there are errors and the wrong coin is linked.

    upload_2020-9-17_10-43-40.png
     
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  16. Arcane76

    Arcane76 Active Member

    Thank you everyone for your replies!

    @ddddd: I wish they(pcgs) paid more attention to things like typos. Because, in my opinion, then I feel what level of scrutiny do they apply to coins? Also thank you for the link regarding pcgs grading other shekels as well. I didn’t notice the difference in cert number, thank you for pointing that out! Likewise you helped me understand the pcgs site/links and care needed about mistakes on their part. Thanks!!

    @robinjojo : I wasn’t sure on if the pcgs holder and coin was counterfeit. I have heard that the counterfeiters are getting to where they use real barcodes and numbers that when scanned take you to “the correct coin” but the whole thing maybe fake. Although I suspect it would be higher value coins but who knows.. I am happy with the coin. It may not be(ok isn’t) as attractive as others but it was cheaper which allows me to have one as a type coin and then I can afford other coins. To me a good thing lol.

    @Herodotus : I wish they had photographs that I could see, but as you said they don’t. I appreciate the work you did looking into it!! Thank you!
    I have been had once before with a forgery. It was the correct metal(silver) but was in fact fake. At least I recouped the silver value. Also I hate slabs, but it was good enough price. Anyways it’s getting broken out soon enough!

    @dbc99 : thanks! As I said above I didn’t notice it was a catch all number but with different cert numbers. Thank you for the input.

    @Ignoramus Maximus : thank you! I didn’t see the difference in cert numbers. I tend unfortunately though to be suspicious a lot.

    @Nemo : Thank you! You gave me a lot of detail! And even better a close date to go with I appreciate it!

    to cointalk ancient forum: you all are the best! I’m a noob but I felt welcome right away and can ask questions without feeling like I’m getting blasted for it. Also the wealth of information you have and are willing to share is so appreciated! Not a knock against other areas ie US etc but ancients in my experience has been far more patient with newcomers.
     
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  17. robinjojo

    robinjojo Supporter! Supporter

    May you continue to find fulfillment and happiness in your collecting endeavors!
     
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