I agree, sellers should be able to leave feedback...and at one time they did. But, sellers using the feedback system to extort buyers into giving positive feedback and using the system for retaliation caused eBay to get rid of the option.
Bottom line is you are still saying the seller paid and held up his end, but you don't want to give feedback in case he leaves you with bad feedback. That's extortion. Btw: Did you describe the coin well enough? It's hard to believe that the seller would see a perfect coin and the buyer a worn out coin. Someone here has lied. Simple as that. The auction and pics are there for the world to see who is lying. Doesn't do you any good anyway. ONLY HONEST eBayers are worried about their feedback and would care if you left first or not. The guy you describe that supposedly lied about your honest description of the coin, he knows you can't neg him and could care less. He was going to start trouble with you no matter what. I spent several hundred dollars just this weekend on coins, and I paid as soon as the auctions were over, and I got all my feedback as a buyer within minutes. The people I have bought from are either my regular sellers, or sellers I will go back to in the future after my good experience tonight.
I agree that sellers need to "get over it" in general and just work within the system, if you truly have received unwarranted negative feedback, you can get it cleared up. Overall though, I think the problem stems from eBay limiting the communication between buyers and sellers. As sellers I cannot originate any communication, I have to wait for the buyer to message me and after that all communication is supposed to be through eBay's limited and antiquated messaging system. If there was more freedom and encouragement of actual communication between buyer and seller, outside of feedback, there would be less problems for everyone, imo.
Sellers need to be able to have freedom of speech too. I realize that sellers should be able to leave negs. Not being able to leave that info cheapens the value of the feedback system and the value of the buyers feedback rating. That is why you have dishonest buyers now I believe. However, it's like gun control laws... the honest people get screwed and people that are going to make trouble are going to do it anyway.
My feedback left as a buyer, happens when the item I've won or BIN, arrives, and is exactly as described in the listing, not damaged during transit, etc. I have only once left a very negative feedback, and pushed to have the seller removed, because he was scamming people out of their money and not shipping items. I got my money returned, he got another negative score, and also was removed for running auctions/BINs and not shipping merchandise.
Very good point Condor. To those of you here that think the seller should leave positive feedback as soon as the item has been paid for, how many of you, as buyers, leave positive feedback as soon as the item arrives at your home and before you open the package? After all, the logic that says the buyer's obligation is fulfilled as soon as he pays is the same logic that would say that the seller's obligation is fulfilled as soon as the package is delivered. In a face-to-face deal, a handshake signifies that both parties are satisfied. This occurs after the whole transaction has taken place. The buyer signifies that he is satisfied at the same time that the seller signifies that he is also satisfied. Buyer-seller feedback is the same as a handshake - it's done after the final completion of the sale when payment has been made and accepted, and the product has been delivered and accepted. Another point - I'm currently dealing with a non-paying buyer. Instant payment not having been made, I sent an invoice the day following the the end of the auction. With no response to that, three days later I sent an email to the buyer. After another five days of no response I sent a follow-up email. After another two more days (14 days from the auction's end) I will file a claim through ebay. Assuming that the buyer finally does pay, should I then leave positive feedback (that wasn't earned or deserved)?
I completely disagree with you. The responsibilities of the seller are much greater than that of the buyer. The seller must accurately describe and list the item. If it does not arrive as described, the seller hasn't done their job. Thus, the buyer must inspect the item in order for the seller's end to be fulfilled. If it has arrived as described...the seller deserves positive feedback even if the buyer isn't fully satisfied. Buyer being fully satisfied is where return policy's come in. My understanding is eBay has policies about how quickly payment should be made. IMHO, I think if the buyer does pay and has a good reason for being so late (was out of town for example)...then a positive should be left. I also think this is a good time to use the feedback description. Ultimately, the buyer did pay...but there was a delay in payment being made. In my eyes, this is a time where the seller should be able to leave a neutral feedback. Unfortunately, sellers who extort their buyers using feedback have lost the ability for everybody.
As mentioned before in my web store policy. If a customers has a problem with maling the payment on time . To please contact me and we will work something out . Believe me it has happened a few times I've held items as long as a month . There is so many weather related tragedies it might be us one day. All they have to do is e-mail me , but if I do not get a response that is a differant story. Sandy
Respectful Disagreement I respectfully disagree with your pleading, as the buyer/seller contract hasn't been fulfilled until the buyer receives Quid Pro Quo, and acknowledges same by direct contact, feedback, or the contractual time period has elapsed without additional communication. A case in point is: Recently on eBay, I won (not B.I.N.), and promptly paid for a roll of pre-1921 high grade mixed date/mint Morgan Silver Dollars. The S/H charge was considerately excessive to actual shipping cost. A grossly torn loose package promptly arrived, having rattling coins inside. The package was enclosed by a transparent sealed "overwrap" with a USPS notice of handling damage. I re-read the auction to ascertain the vague return policy. The actual postage amount was appreciable less than that for which I paid. I promptly sent a notice to the seller, explaining the receival conditions, requesting return funds for a USPS medium sized flat rate box to return the un-opened package, which probably had diminished count damaged coins. I suspected the ultimate seller response. I promptly contacted eBay, as a 5 figure monthly buyer/seller, asking them to read my seller sent e-mail, requesting a prepaid label for a medium sized flat rate box. I explained to eBay the "Catch-22" condition, that if I opened the USPS sealed package and found the contents diminished or damaged, liability could be argued. I knew that the USPS wrapped torn package with rattling contents, were not what was contracted to be received. EBay denied my request, stating that enough time hadn't been allowed the seller, that the contents had to be examined to ascertain number/condition, and that eBay "buyer protection" doesn't cover shipping occurrences. The seller responded as suspected, stating that I should return the package, and "they" (female moniker, male named response) would issue "a refund". I slit the corner of the package "overwrap" enough to gently remove Dollar coins, in the presence of a Notary Public with a camera. The entire coin contents (18 of the 20 coins purchased), some with fresh damage, were extracted though the largest ~5" package gash, and slid through the overwrap slit. The package will be returned to the seller, via USPS, with signature confirmation, requesting a prorated refund for 2 coins, and return postage. If my seemingly reasonable request is not fulfilled by the seller, I will leave appropriate factual "negative" feedback. I will also initiate a small claims court action for damages, listing the seller, and eBay culpable as co-defendants. All efforts are generally required to be completed prior to the eBay "time-out" period. IMHO, I BELIEVE TIMELY REASONABLE CONTRACTUAL RESPONSE IS APPROPRIATE, AND A MATTER OF PRINCIPLE.
I agree with you completely. My point is...the buyer has completed their end of the contract once they have paid for the item...at that point, only the seller has not fulfilled their end. So, once the buyer pays...the buyer should received appropriate feedback even before the item as been shipped. Once the item is received, inspected and is as described...then the buyer should give feedback to the seller. If the item is not as described...them the seller must be contacted. The seller should not receive feedback until the item is received by the buyer and is as described.
:scratch: When the seller gets my payment, it's a certain number of dollars. It has no other distinguishing characteristics. You check your PayPal balance, you note that you've received a payment of $X from me. There's nothing else for you to find out about it. When I receive a package, I need to open it to see whether it contains coins, slugs, or rocks -- unless, of course, what I agreed to buy was "a sealed package addressed to the winning bidder, with undisclosed contents." The seller can tell immediately if I've delivered what I promised ($X). For the sorts of items we discuss here, I as buyer have to inspect things a little more carefully.
Well since the only feedback a seller can give is postive! Then all sellers should spend the time the auction is running thinking of glowing feedback for the super delux extra fine buyer that wins his aution. As soon as the auction ends and while waiting on payment the seller can leave that super delux feedback and hope he is paid withen the sixty days the auction remains in the eBay systen.:devil: BTW I normally leave feeedback when I come back from posting the items in the mail. Sometimes when we use a flawed system you must live with the constraints imposed by the system. As long as the buyers think they should get feedback as soon a they pay sellers will be jumping through hoops.:dead-horse:
When you do an auction, you can specify in your auction settings that it be paid for IMMEDIATELY to be a valid sale. So, there should never be a non-paying buyer.
You can either not leave feedback (best choice), or you can check the box and leave a narrative explaining your displeasure.
You do not pay more for immediate payment. My BIN fees are less than auction fees for items over $1,000.
Yes in a way they do the Final Value Fees are higher for fixed price listings than auctions. Added most of my items are less than $1000.00.
Since the sellers can't leave a negative if it is deserved, and the buyers seem to think that they deserve payment as soon as they pay, a buyers feedback rating really doesn't mean that much. I suppose the only feedback a buyer really deserves is "Paid".
A Legal Understanding I believe you'll find your understanding to be legally correct, as any additional accolades may negate compensation for subsequent real damages realized when creative buyers, as have posted on this site, are refunded their purchase payment while retaining the item purchased. The damage to a seller allowing payment through PayPal can be quite severe, as you can verify by credit card payment "reversals", currently documented by sellers on paypalsucks.com. When I last viewed the site there was a $9000 incorrect reversal allowed by Paypal who it has been noted, improperly allowed same with virtual legal impunity. I've erred several times in the past, promptly posting positive feedback on a "delivery confirmation" sent item. Subsequently, I received buyer notification of non-receipt, threatening a case opening if not receiving a full refund. A seller has little choice but to refund and "black-list". A great portion of items I've sold on eBay are of 4 figure sales price which allows a capped final fee amount. Based on past experience with devious buyers, and Paypal, I will not allow any advantage on expensive items which may require future arbitration. Since eBay doesn't allow appropriate seller feedback, "promptly paid" feedback is seemingly sufficient until the buyer has signified contract satisfaction. :thumb:
