To clarify, the one shown by Barry is a fake. He was making the point that someone foolishly spent $4161 on a fake.
Hard to judge, at least for me. It does have a full crest, and her nose isn't cut off, plus the reverse is well centered and there are no test cuts. However, the surfaces are not good and it is oddly lacking in eye appeal for a coin with so much (theoretically) going for it. Maybe part of that is due to the poorly done images. Looking through recent sales of other mass emission period owl tets, maybe $1000-1500, although it isn't worth that much to me. For that money I'd take one with less crest and better surfaces over full crest and bad surfaces. Edited to add: I'd like to hear other members' opinions on what the eBay coin is worth. I have a hard time being objective about owl tets since I resent the high price tag for such a common coin.
When someone sends in a coin to NGC that is overvalued, I contact them and let them know they have sent the coin in under the wrong grading tier and that we can grade the coin for a lower fee. In 95% of the cases, the customers are happy to save some money. With this particular person, it was submitted at the highest tier, over $25,000. I sent her an email explain we could do this coin at the standard tier, $500-3000 and save her almost $500 in fees. She basically told me I had no idea what I was talking about and that the coin had been in their family for decades and based on a valuation done in the 70's that now her coin had to be worth at least the value she submitted it at, if not more. She insisted on paying the higher fees. In the end the grading fee she paid was nearly as much as the coin is worth. On a great day at auction, this coin may bring $750. The crest while there isn't close to being full, and the surfaces were pretty rough (thus the 2 surface grade) and the coin lacked eye appeal. Some people just don't want to be helped. On another note, just to avoid confusion, the coin I posted that sold on ebay for over $4000 is a modern forgery. Barry
It sounds like you did as much or more then most would do to help somebody out in this position. It sounds like she was told at one time the coin was worth way more then it is. Some people you just cannot help unfortunately. She obviously does not want to sell the coin , and just wanted to use eBay to exhibit her rare item. Barry you did more then most, others would have grabbed her cash ,and would not have told her that it could be classified under a different level for a saving of a fair amount. It sounds to me like you run a good honest business , and there are those that cannot appreciate what good your trying to do for them.
Hope she didn't put herself in hock counting on the money from the sale of the coin - I recall someone putting up a common Constantine for $10,000 - he could not be dissuaded from his view that something that old had to be worth thousands.
And probably had an idiot pay that much. After all, if the seller thinks it's worth it, then it must be so!
For comparison here is mine. No test cut, better owl, better surfaces and a nicely defined earring (whatever that means), crest and very nice toning. It's all there. In hand it's even better...under $1000. I could probably get a better picture, surfaces are actually smooth, toning makes it look rough.
I've never quite understood the reasoning behind grading tiers to begin with. It's kind of like tipping, which is an institution that doesn't make much sense and should be done away with in my opinion. Paying extra based on the value of the food is silly. Is it more or less difficult to carry a hotdog and chips out to a customer as opposed to a steak and baked potato? No, so why does the steak waiter expect more money? Same thing with coins, is it more difficult to grade a more valuable coin? Or is this instituted because, "You can afford that coin, so you can afford to pay us more money"? Not trying to ruffle any feathers here. I just can't help but wonder about these things, and if there is a legitimate reason for the differences in rates then I'd be curious to learn what it is.
The nose isn't cut, that's just the way it looks because of the tabs NGC uses in its holders. If you saw it live, it looks fine. They put some kind of gasket around the coin to fit the holder, remember, the coin is not perfectly round.
This is what happens when you WANT something to be true so BADLY that you ignore all facts and evidence to the contrary. Nothing good comes from acting this way but it is much worse for collectors when they do this as the BUYER rather than the SELLER.
Theodosius: I see you use the British Sovereign as your picture, just like it or collect Sovereigns? They are a favorite of mine and affordable gold and silver coins. This one was minted in India- tough to find.
It's an ancient coin from Tarentum-- that's a naked guy on a horse (the reverse is a naked guy on a dolphin ). But you're right-- in that cropped view it does resemble a British Sovereign! Maybe that's the inspiration for the modern coin?
Sorry about that, I saw the page on my Smartphone, which makes the image even smaller and harder to see. It seems strange to hear a coin that's over a hundred years old called a "modern coin." Maybe classic would be a better term. I know ancients can be two thousand years old, but I've always considered modern coins to be coins still in production with a relatively new image on it.
There are a few reasons for the difference in rates. 1 - In general, the more expensive a coin the more time that will be spent verifying authenticity because there is a greater risk if a mistake is made. We had a US coin in recently that we spent at least 5 days with on verifying authenticity and confirming that it wasn't a coin that was stolen in the 1960's. TPG's, in regards to US and world coins, have to insure against the possibility of having made a mistake and then being liable for the value of the coin. 2 - Insurance costs covering loss are higher for a more expensive coin, both in terms of the cost of the in house insurance to cover the coin while it's in our possession, and the cost of insurance for the return shipping of the coin to the owner. 3 - The value added is greater for a more expensive coin than for a cheaper coin thus the fee for the added value is greater. The US coin mentioned above was submitted as a probable forgery. After extensive research it was determined the coin was authentic and probably worth in excess of $3 million. That's a lot of added value. Likewise, a coin I saw today with a submitted value of $50k, turned out to be a forgery. The value to the dealer that submitted it is significant in that he now won't run a forgery in his sale and be liable for it in the future, and the owner of the coin can return it to where he purchased it and get a refund. Again, a lot of added value. Barry Murphy
