eBay Buyer Protection Policy Opinions Needed

If the Coin is still in it's original holder as purchased , and the time restriction has not elapsed, yes you can ask for an EBAY rep to assist you with a dispute resolution. However , You must pay attention to the Sellers return policy . Sellers have protected policy rights as well . I would think, that your time frame allowed for returns has long since elapsed . This may just be a situation where you will have to suck it up and learn from your inexperience . Your not the first, and I dare think , you will be the last.

 

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The first rule of buying coins by mail is-- If you remove a coin from its original holder, it's yours.

 

I'm fairly certain Aslanmia has learned some important lessons from this . That said , it serves no purpose to further inflict any harsh critisism upon the OP . This is a place where hopefully folks will learn from the advice or experience of more well seasoned collectors , and not be verbally whipped . I've made some whoppers of mistakes too . I'm fairly confident most of us have also .

 

Really? BU might be a grade in Europe, but in the US the two terms contradict each other.

Here's the PCGS definition of BU-

[FONT=arial, helvetica]"A generic term applied to any coin that has not been in circulation. It often is applied to coins with little "brilliance" left, which properly should be described as simply Uncirculated.[/FONT]"

Here's the definition of GEM-

[FONT=arial, helvetica]"Adjectival description applied to Mint State and Proof-65 coins. It also is used for higher grades and as a generic term for a superb coin.[/FONT]"

As I see it, "uncirculated" is not a grade, but merely a condition. I'll trade you one for one my "uncirculated" coins for any 65+ coins you have.

 

I'm honestly not sure of the lesson. The OP admitted that he knew the grading company was crap, but decided to gamble anyways. Now that his gamble did not pay off he wants the seller to take the item back. It sounds like the seller did nothing but sell a coin graded by "x" TPG. Did the seller make a claim that the grade would hold up with PCGS, or NGC, etc...No. At least not as I gather. Geez...even though I knew the odds in advance, wish I could return lottery tickets that did not pay off.

 

I'm not going to try to turn the thread into a debate on grading, but there are some issues that I believe people need to understand, especially with buying coins based on photos and descriptors.

To my knowledge, PCGS does not even use non-numeric grades, for the most part, and they would be far from an authority on the issue. Just because a grade is not numerically assigned does not mean it is not a grade. The grading philosophy one follows would greatly influence the outlook one has on grading.

Historically, the use of Uncirculated and Brilliant Uncirculated has held some very consistent meaning within grading of U.S. coins. The descriptors of "typical", "choice", "A-1", "GEM", "perfect", etc. also have held particular connotations when utilized with the grades of "Uncirculated" and "Brilliant Uncirculated" much like the numbers 60 through 70 when utilized along with the "grade" of Mint State.

To be more precise, "Brilliant" is simply another descriptor to the one grade of "Uncirculated", but I won't expound on that philosophy at this time. In the 1980s, the use of these descriptive grades was still used widely, even after the advent of the ANA's standards utilizing a form of the Sheldon numbering system in conjunction with the normal descriptive grades (Good, Fine, etc).

Halperin writes in the NCI Grading Guide what I would consider to be the definition of the use of "Birlliant" in "Brilliant Uncirculated":

Again, Halperin describes (what I consider to be a quite accurate rendering of) the use of the descriptor "GEM":

Some still use these terms today. I glanced at an advertisement in the February 8 Numismatic News magazine this week from International Numismatic Bureau and noticed that they have begun utilizing descriptive grading on their slabs. I don't pay attention to the likes of INB much, but if I remember correctly, they used to use numeric grading on their slabs. That said, I hope you do not believe that the only reason someone would utilize this kind of grading terminology would be to simply defraud another.

Going back to the use of "GEM" and "Brilliant", have you ever seen a "prominent" TPG grade a fully toned coin MS-67? That would be something that could be graded as "GEM Uncirculated". However, in my grading philosophy, the term "GEM Brilliant Uncirculated" would signify a coin that is not toned (or extremely little at all around the edges) with full original luster and untainted surfaces.

It could plausibly be argued that "Brilliant" is a descriptor and the grade would be "GEM Uncirculated" (or simply "Uncirculated"), but the point is that descriptive grading is still utilized today and does have very specific (yet sometimes varying) definitions.

One of the most asked questions in numismatics is "What is my coin worth?" Yet, to answer that question, one must ask a series of other questions first, including "What does my coin grade?" Yet, very few people even ask the question "What is a grade?"

Q. David Bowers answers this question on page 99 of his book The Expert's Guide to Collecting & Investing in Rare Coins":

"Uncirculated" most definitely signifies a grade as it signifies the condition of the coin. The "grade" is simply that, a representation of the condition of a coin. Of course, the further you get into "market grading" the less "condition" becomes the main issue, but it is still the prime consideration in "grade".

Now, I did not intend to post such an exhaustive post, but with this information, we should realize that coin grading is very subjective...it is subject to the biased opinion of the one determining the condition of the coin. Furthermore, there are a plethora of grading "guidelines", "standards", "philosophies"...whatever you want to call it.

Regardless, when buying (and selling) coins, the buyer and seller must both understand each other. If the two parties are trying to conduct the transaction without fully understanding the language each is "speaking", then problems will arise. One party or the other will not be satisfied with the transaction, and may well feel cheated from it.

Even with our "expectations" from our own understanding of the "language" being communicated, if there are any questions, must definitely ask them to ensure that what you think you are getting is truly what is being delivered. There is no absolute "authority" on the subject of coin grading. And I do not believe that anybody within this hobby should be "forced" to comply with any other individual's or entity's "authority" on the subject.

If "Uncirculated" is not a grade in your philosophy, that is perfectly fine because it doesn't have to be. If TPGs and MS-70s are the bane of the hobby in your philosophy, that's fine too. But, in our buying and selling, we need to understand that others in our numismatic community are in some cases speaking a different "language". We need to properly communicate and be open to the philosophies of others if we are going to understand each other and make our numismatic transactions flow smoothly.

 

It certainly makes YOU look guilty of fraud or something. Man, once you removed the coin from the slab, how can you prove it's the same one ? If I were seller, I would accuse you of switching the coin and challenge your claim.

gary

 

+1

 

I'm sure if they give a hard earnest review of this situation, they surely could learn a thing or two. Than again, perhaps not .

 

I agree.
that maybe what void the ebay claim

 

Just a follow up...

Last week, eBay ruled in my favor. They asked me to send them a copy of the PCGS report, which I did. I sent the coin back to the seller but I have yet to receive my refund from PayPal even though eBay assures me it is coming.

Now here's the kicker... the seller signed for the returned coin on March 10 and he reposted it again on eBay the following day in a quickie 5 day auction. I brought it to eBay's attention through email and even a phone call to customer support, but it still ended up selling for $1800, just under what I paid for it.

I guess being a power seller counts for something on eBay... it really is buyer beware!

 

I never touched the coin... it went straight to PCGS. If they want to acuse PCGS of switching coins they'll probably have a lawsuit on their hands.

Either way, it's a moot point. They're refunding my money.

 

It's unfortunate that you're in this pickle. However, I hope you use this as a learning experience and for future purchases, only buy NGC, PCGS, ANACS, or ICG slabbed coins as they are really the only reputable TPGs going.

Good luck.