I am wondering: what area of numismatic coins is easiest to make a counterfeit and in what area do counterfeits find place most often? I am thinking in both of copper, silver and gold, and from a wide period entirely from the beginning in the Greek/Lydia until today. Is Roman/Byzantine Solidus gold easier to make counterfeits of than of a 1 oz gold Maple Leaf? Is an American Eagle 1 oz silver or 1879 Morgan Silver Dollar easier to make a counterfeit than a Roman Denarius or Byzantine Hexagram/Miliaresion? Is a copper coin from Medieval Byzantine easier to make a fake one than an American copper coin from around 1900? What kinds of collectors do have highest chance of receiving counterfeit coins? If that topic has been debated many times, then sorry and please provide me the links.
@Herberto, if I didn't know any better, it sounds like you're wanting to get into the counterfeiting business. I really have no idea how to answer your questions. I would suspect that the key date coins in any series are the most copied, counterfeited and/or faked.
Inexperienced and uneducated collectors I thought the same thing! Herberto, your questions are all great but I feel you're over thinking it. All these coins in question can be counterfeited. Education and experience is the most important things to determine the difference.. good luck!
Read Numismatic Forgery. Any coin can be convincingly forged with the right equipment (primarily a metalworking lathe and some jeweler's tools).
All coins have the potential for being counterfeited but there are definitely some that are more likely to be faked than others. In addition to key dates of any series, Trade Dollars come to mind as well as gold with numismatic value. I can't speak to ancient or medieval but keep in mind that NGC's ancients division will not even guarantee authenticity.
Ancients and hammered are probably easier to counterfeit because every genuine coin is different and a multitude of dies were used (often not by the same engraver). It makes it much more difficult to compare a suspect coin with a geuine. Many ancient counterfeits are called such because the "style" is wrong. A definite "gray area" subjective call. On the other hand the market for ancients and hammered is much thinner and there is much more profit potential in the post hammered era.
Sorry to bumb this thread as I don't want to create a new thread, but recently i did read that article: http://www.forumancientcoins.com/dougsmith/fake.html The author asserts that: "Fake ancient coins are not really a serious problem and not nearly as prevalent as fakes of modern coins" Do experienced collectors here agree with that assertion above?
On the whole, yes the statement is true. In terms of sheer numbers there are absolutely more examples of counterfeit modern coins than there are counterfeit ancients. But then you must also realize that how you define "modern" becomes very important. To some who collect ancients modern is anything minted after 400 AD. To others, it's anything minted after 900 AD, or approximately those dates anyway. But if you ask other collectors modern can be anything minted after 1643 when milled coinage was first invented and accepted as the manufacturing method by France. And to yet others modern is anything minted after 1964, for US coins anyway. In other words modern can mean a lot of very different things. So I guess it comes down to a question of ratios. For example, how common are counterfeits, how many fakes are there in proportion to the number of ancients sold ? And how many in proportion to the number of moderns sold ? I have no doubt moderns would still be the higher number. But so what ? I mean, what difference does it make ? It really doesn't make any difference because all coins are counterfeited, or have been at one time or another. So for the collector you either know what you are doing and can avoid buying fakes, or you do not and do not avoid buying them. When it comes to counterfeits or fakes there are many things that you have to realize. One of the first of those is that there are two types of counterfeits, those that are made for use in commerce, to pass as real money in other words. And those that are made to sell to collectors. And the former far, far, outnumber the latter. And it is not just the key dates and more valuable coins that are counterfeited, as many think is the case, all coins are or have been counterfeited. And when I say that the first thing I am always asked is why would anyone counterfeit common coins ? And the answer is easy, because which coin are you likely to look at more closely - a valuable coin, or an inexpensive coin ? The reason common coins are counterfeited is exactly that - because nobody cares enough to look closely so it is much easier to get away with faking common coins. You may less money per individual coin, but you more than make up for it with volume. And you don't get caught. Another thing is that counterfeits are not just made by individuals, but sometimes by countries, nation states. And with the resources they have at hand, the counterfeits are so good that they even fool the so called experts, the TPGs. In those cases the only people who can usually identify the counterfeits are the individuals who specialize in that particular type of coin. All others are fooled, unless and until it is pointed out to them by those who do know. So as I said, what difference does it make which coin group has the most counterfeits ? There may be fewer ancient fakes, but there are far fewer collectors of them as well. There may be more modern fakes but there are far, far, more collectors of them as well. So the danger of buying a fake exists for us all. And in the end there is only 1 defense, and that is to only buy from someone who guarantees authenticity. Of course the guarantee is of little use if you don't even know you need it. And few do.
Probably the most prolifically counterfeited coins are U.S. gold $20 Saints, and $10 Indians. This is because the United States gave millions of them to Europe after WWII, and in later years, got many back with many more additional counterfeits, which were so convincingly real, dealers today often will not buy them unless they are certified.
I just bought a trade dollar and my sanity I made sure I bought it from a creditable dealer and it was certified (PCGS or NGC ). There are many many counterfeit trade dollars out there
Here you have some pages from Charles M. Larson Numismatic Forgery book http://moneditis.com/2015/08/20/lecturas-veraniegas-vii-fakes-minting-aging-and-patina/ There´s a lot of bibliography about this theme. 8 reales are also very very countefeited. You can read, in spanish, some clues here http://moneditis.com/2015/03/18/algunas-conclusiones-de-8-reales-de-subasta-o-no-falsos/ here http://moneditis.com/2015/04/10/columnarios-falsos-2/ here http://moneditis.com/2015/04/11/clon-duro-segoviano/ and more http://moneditis.com/tag/8-reales/page/2/
This is patently false, according to PCGS at http://www.pcgs.com/News/Indian-Head-Quarter-Eagles-King-Of-The-Counterfeit-Gold-Coin . According to this article, 40% of the counterfeit gold seen by them is Indian quarter eagles. That means either fake Indian quarter eagles massively outnumber everything else, or they're being weeded out before submission (which means they're not deceptive).
I stand corrected. I knew $2.5 indians were up there, but didn't realize they were no. 1, at least, at the grading services. Oh well, we all make mistakes. Ha, ha! Sorry.
Maybe not in shear numbers' but as a percentage of submitted coins the number one is probably the type II one dollar gold. I don't know if PCGS and NGC are seeing the same, but when ANACS began some 80% of all the type II gold dollars submitted were fakes.
This is good, helpful info. to know. This gives both dealers and customers a heads up on what to be warned of, especially since so many fakes look genuine
There's a lot to know about counterfeits Daniel, far more than could ever be discussed here on this forum. There are several entire books dedicated to the subject, and they are not small books. And that doesn't account for the hundreds of articles on the subject that have been written over the years, nor the websites dedicated to it. Some of the websites don't even exist anymore. Here is a link to just a little of that information that I put together years ago - https://www.cointalk.com/threads/counterfeits.13989/ It also helps to know things like back in the '60s and '70s there were entire factories in the middle east doing nothing but producing counterfeit gold coins from just about every country, especially those of the US. And they turned these fakes out by the millions. And some of these fakes were so good they could fool almost anybody. There is even a story of some fake British sovereigns that were so good they fooled the folks at the Royal Mint. It was things like this that gave reason for the creation of the TPGs. Suffice it to say that a great many of the coins from these factories can be found in the collections of people who collect gold - and they don't even know they have them.
As a humorous aside, if you can successfully manufacture convincing counterfeit Lincoln cents for less than face value, the government (and especially the mint) may want to get in touch with you, and not necessarily to arrest you.
