Dynamite Diocletian

Discussion in 'Ancient Coins' started by Mat, Oct 20, 2020.

  1. Mat

    Mat Ancient Coincoholic

    I had a significant amount of ebay bucks to use thanks to their specials, and with that, I was able to get some new Diocletian coinage for $8 total out of my own money.

    The first is a type I have wanted for some time, the Abdication Issue. I have one of Maximianus, but not Diocletian. They can get expensive and this was listed way under the usual going rate. So I got a good deal because it was also an "offer" listing.

    Diocletian, As Senior Augustus, (305-311/2 A.D.)
    Æ Follis
    Abdication Issue
    O: D N DIOCLETIANO BAEATISS, laureate bust right, wearing imperial mantle, holding olive branch and mappa.
    R: PROVIDENTIA DEORVM, Providentia standing left, extending branch to Quies standing opposite who holds a scepter; Є/KP between, ALE in exergue.
    Alexandria mint, struck A.D. 308-310.
    RIC VI 109

    And though this is a very common type, I was really attracted to it & it was a step up in grade from my old Tet of him, which I have since sold.

    Diocletian (284 - 305 A.D.)
    Egypt, Alexandria
    Potin Tetradrachm
    O.: DIOKLHTIANOC CEB; Laureate, cuirassed bust right.
    R.: Elpis advancing left, holding flower and hem; D in exergue, L ENATOV (date) around.
    Alexandria mint, 292/293 A.D.
    Köln 3262; Dattari 5675; Milne 5086; Emmett 4046
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  3. ancient coin hunter

    ancient coin hunter I dig ancient coins...

    Nice tet and follis. I picked up an abdication follis a couple of months ago.

    Diocletian (A.D. 284-305) AE Follis

    Weight: 6.90 grams

    Diameter: 23 mm

    Mint: Follis struck at Alexandria (ALE Mintmark) between 308 and 310, after his abdication.

    Obverse: DN DIOCLETIANO BAEATISS, laurel-wreathed bust right wearing mantle, holding olive branch and holding mappa in the other hand.

    Reverse: PROVIDENTIA DEORVM, Providentia standing right, extending right hand to Quies, standing left, holding branch and sceptre.

    Reference: Sear 12922, RIC VI Alexandria 80 corr.

  4. Clavdivs

    Clavdivs Supporter! Supporter

    Really nice.. I've been looking for one for a bit as well.. nice deal!

    Here is a large follis of Diocletian I picked up earlier this year.

  5. John Conduitt

    John Conduitt Well-Known Member

    Yes the abdication issues are tricky - it took me a while to get the one for London:

    Diocletian, bronze nummus, 305-307, Londinium. 27mm, 10.51g. D N DIOCLETIANO FELICISSIMO SEN AVG. PROVIDENTIA DEORVM QVIES AVGG - 2 Gs for 2 emperors (RIC VI 77a).

    Although he doesn't look any older than in the Carausius issue:

    Diocletian (struck under Carausius), antoninianus, 292-293, Londinium. 4.34g. IMP C DIOCLETIANVS P F AVG. PAX AVGGG - 3 Gs for 3 emperors (RIC V, ii, p.552, 9).
  6. maridvnvm

    maridvnvm Well-Known Member

    I like them both but LOVE the abdication follis.
    Inspector43 likes this.
  7. dougsmit

    dougsmit Member Supporter

    Those are excellent post-abdication issues. My favorite Diocletians are the pre-reform Siscia mint coded series where the word IOBI is divided by the three workshops giving us A with I, B with O and gamma with BI. The coins below illustrate the three different placements of the officinae letters. Those who get carried away with sets might also get all the placements with each officina and even the different style busts but I stopped with the simple set of three.
    ru3280fd2029.jpg ru3290bb2022.jpg ru3300bb1873.jpg

    I guess anyone who wants these will want the Maximianus set which divided HP-KOY-lambdaI but that is another post for another thread.
    A dealer once told me that these were rare and hard to find. The truth is that many sellers that call themselves dealers have no idea what those extra letters mean so you can find them just by paying attention.
  8. Mat

    Mat Ancient Coincoholic

    Here is my Antoninianus that isn't posted much.

    I really should update the pic.

    Diocletian (284 - 305 A.D.)
    Æ(S) Antoninianus
    O: IMP C C VAL DIOCLETIANVS P F AVG, Radiate, draped and cuirassed bust right.
    R: IOV ET HERCV CONSER AVGG, Jupiter stg R hldg globe and scepter; Hercules stg L hldg Victory, club,& lionskin, crescent & Z in center, XXI in ex.
    Antioch Mint
    RIC V 323
  9. Caesar_Augustus

    Caesar_Augustus Well-Known Member

    That's a beauty! I'm yet to get an Alexandrian abdication follis. Here's mine for Serdica:

    AE Follis
    305 - 306 A.D., Serdica Mint, 3rd Officina
    9.89g, 27.0mm, 6H
    Bust of Diocletian, laureate, wearing imperial mantle, right, holding olive branch in right hand and mappa in left hand

    Providentia, draped, standing right, extending right hand to Quies; Quies, draped, standing left, holding branch in right hand and leaning on sceptre with left hand; in left field, S; in right field, F next to officina letter

    Exergue: -/Γ//•SM•SD•

    Provenance: Ex. CNG Coins Electronic Auction 422, Lot 601

    Reference: RIC VI Serdica 15a
  10. lordmarcovan

    lordmarcovan Eclectic & avid numismatist Moderator

    Those are sharp.
  11. singig

    singig Well-Known Member

    I have one from Trier

    Diocletian AE Follis. Trier mint, 305-306 AD. RIC VI 676a
    D N DIOCLETIANO FELICISSIMO SEN AVG, laureate and mantled bust right, holding olive branch in right hand, mappa in left /
    PROVIDENTIA DEORVM QVIES AVGG, Providentia standing right, extending right hand to Quies standing left, holding branch and leaning on sceptre; S-F across fields. Mintmark PTR.
    29 mm / 10 g
    diocle v2.jpg
  12. Bing

    Bing Illegitimi non carborundum Supporter

    Diocletian 7.jpg
    AE27 Silvered Follis
    OBVERSE: IMP C C VAL DIOCLETIANVS P F AVG, laureate head right
    REVERSE: GENIO POPV-L-IROMANI, Genius standing left, holding patera & cornucopia, HTA in ex.
    Struck at Heraclea, 296-297 AD
    9.3g, 27mm
    RIC VI 19a
  13. Roman Collector

    Roman Collector Supporter! Supporter

    I haven't posted this Alexandrian tet in a while:
    Diocletian, AD 284-305.
    Roman billon tetradrachm, 19.2 mm, 7.24 g, 12 h.
    Egypt, Alexandria, AD 285-6.
    Obv: Α Κ Γ ΟVΑΛ ΔΙΟΚΛΗΤΙΑΝΟC CЄΒ, laureate and cuirassed bust, right.
    Rev: Athena seated left, holding Nike and resting on scepter, shield at side; L B (= regnal year 2) in field.
    Refs: Dattari 5638; BMCG 2485; Milne 4765; Cologne 3211; RCV 12856.
  14. OutsiderSubtype

    OutsiderSubtype Well-Known Member

    I don't have a retirement issue for Diocletian or Maximianus.

    I do have this, which I guess is an UN-retirement issue of Maximianus.

  15. nicholasz219

    nicholasz219 Well-Known Member

    @Mat Thanks for sharing. Your two coins are great and your post prompted everyone to show their abdication issues. I am really attracted to these issues probably because it happened so infrequently that an emperor retired. Also the big follii and long inscriptions are attractive. I don’t need another subcollection but I certainly like picking up the follii when I see them.
  16. Al Kowsky

    Al Kowsky Supporter! Supporter

    Mat, Great score on both coins :D! The price you paid for the abdication nummus amounts to legal theft :smuggrin:. The portrait on the potin Tet is unusually fine for the Alexandrian Mint. Together the two portraits make a fascinating contrast, the Tet is done in classic Roman style & the nummus is done in the "Eastern or Asian" style. I've been looking for a high grade abdication nummus for several years without success, & they keep getting more expensive :(.
    panzerman likes this.
  17. Al Kowsky

    Al Kowsky Supporter! Supporter

    C.A., That's a stunning nummus :D! If I had spotted that coin 2 years ago you would have had some serious competition bidding for that coin :smuggrin:.
    singig and Caesar_Augustus like this.
  18. Romancollector

    Romancollector Well-Known Member

    @Mat Terrific pick ups! The abdication follis has excellent detail. In my experience, decedent abdication folles are rather difficult to find.
    ancient coin hunter likes this.
  19. Gavin Richardson

    Gavin Richardson Well-Known Member

    I love those abdication folles, and yours is an especially nice one. Congrats.

    Here’s my green beauty. I rarely punch the VCoins “Add to Cart” button immediately, but I did for this one.

  20. Curtisimo

    Curtisimo the Great(ish) Supporter

    Nice coin Mat. I don’t have one of this type but wish I did. My favorite Diocletian in my collection is probably this sole rule Antoninianus before the elevation of Maximian.

    Diocletian: Two Interesting Coins and a Legacy of Reform

    My prettiest Diocletian is probably this one.
    Last edited: Oct 21, 2020
    randygeki, Seated J, eparch and 10 others like this.
  21. Victor_Clark

    Victor_Clark standing on the shoulders of giants Dealer

    Here's an abdication issue that looks like it is from Trier since it has the S-F control marks and PTR as the mintmark. It is actually from Cyzicus-- note the KS between Providentia and Quies and the style of the bust. Apparently the Trier mint sent a coin to be used as a model to Cyzicus and they copied it exactly and then added the KS.

    Last edited: Oct 21, 2020
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