Duchy of Neopatras . John II Angelus-Comnenus AD 1303-1318.Billon denier tournois

Discussion in 'Ancient Coins' started by VD76, Nov 22, 2019.

  1. VD76

    VD76 Active Member

    I’m looking if anyone knows or have any articles on Duchy of Neopatras , John II Angelus coinage. In my understanding the legend on reverse on all known examples are +DELLA PATRA or +DELLA PATRIA , or NEOPATRIE

    But on my coin reverse legend are +DELLA PATCRA Unrecorded variant ???

    The obverse legend +ANGELVSSABC
    AED731E8-F4E7-4522-962E-056D1A501291.png
     
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  3. seth77

    seth77 Well-Known Member

    What an excellent coin. To me, the reverse legend looks more like DЄLLA PATЄR ° A, which is likely an unlisted variation (in Malloy, Metcalf or Schlumberger at least, I will also check Tzamalis this weekend to see if anything is mentioned about this particular orthography).
     
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  4. VD76

    VD76 Active Member

    Thank you .
    I still think it's the C.
    D9F4DF0B-5EED-4498-A41B-4B0E528507CB.jpeg
    Very similar to the letter at the end of the obverse legend .
    38F78A00-C418-4741-A52E-D0331415005E.jpeg
     
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  5. VD76

    VD76 Active Member

    And you are right. It’s looks more like E , but also C ( red )
    9CE37510-F3A9-4115-AC1A-DBCE570AEC31.jpeg
    129C6C39-8E6A-4814-9925-760183DF2478.jpeg
    230D9BD0-3723-4FE2-B682-3709EC0565DB.jpeg
     
    Last edited: Nov 23, 2019
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  6. seth77

    seth77 Well-Known Member

    The Є and the C are often very similar in appearance, especially after around 1300, as the mid hyphen of the Є can sometimes be obscured or downright missing because of die-clogging or other similar striking problems.
     
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  7. VD76

    VD76 Active Member

    Here is my another example . Not pretty as the first one :)
    4E99FB1E-E71B-4840-87AC-967B56D4AFEC.jpeg
     
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  8. seth77

    seth77 Well-Known Member

    Still a solid example.

    Just checked Lord Grantley's 1923 report of late Crusader tornesi and yours is not recorded there either. There is an interesting connection though, as his ANPCI NCLARC / DE CLERENTIA entry seems to be a variation of the ANGELVS SAB C with an unclear reverse legend:

    plate.jpg
     
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  9. seth77

    seth77 Well-Known Member

    Eh, Tzamalis saves the day.

    Your coin (or at least the orthography) is recorded in Coins of the Frankish Occupation of Greece at p. 107.

    ccvgjja.jpg
     
  10. VD76

    VD76 Active Member

    Thanks for narrowing this down . . So what I can use as a reference ? Tzamalis p. 107 var. F ?
     
  11. seth77

    seth77 Well-Known Member

    There is no catalog for Neopatria so Tzamalis p. 107 B4 would have to do.
     
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  12. VD76

    VD76 Active Member

    Thanks again :)
     
  13. seth77

    seth77 Well-Known Member

    No prob, always nice to see interesting medieval coinage.
     
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