I have been getting a lot of my coins lately on WhatNot and one of the sellers I deal with on there has an interesting opinion on this subject. He is very knowledgeable about coins and has been a dealer and collector for over 35 years (he says). He does have his own shop and website, so it isn't just someone posing a dealer. The reason I make this post is because many of his live auctions are for coins that are labled DDO or DDR. When he is describing the coins in the auctions he has made the statement many times that there is no difference between a DDO/DDR and Machine Doubling. He said this is a BS way for snooty collectors in the industry to feel superior about particular coins, and that any coin that has doubling is a DDO/DDR. I have heard a totally different thought here on CT about this subject. I'm just curious if there are any thoughts about what this collector/dealer thinks?
He is wrong!!! As the name “doubled die” indicates, obverse or reverse it is part of the die used to strike the coin. Machine ot mechanical doubling indicates a problem during the striking process. There are misinformed people all over the web. Do your own research about the subject.
Yes 1stSgt22 is right!. Machine/mechanical doubling has nothing to do with how the die is made, impressed or refined/corrected. MD occurs after a perfect strike onto the planchet and then the problem starts. During the microsecond(s) that the die is lifting from the planchet, the die moves or slightly rotates as it rises from the planchet, leaving a shadow or shelf-like image that is much less raised than the original strike. It is caused by the holder/keeper in which the die is installed. Once the keeper is tightened by the floor staff, you will again have true strikes and no shadow images. It is an ERROR caused by the machinery, not a Variety that the mint planed.
I am not a collector of errors and even I know that. The machine doubling is the product of an overworked die. Nothing more. It is like these folks that try to sell Lincoln's on Ebay with the "L" in Liberty in the rim of the coin for obscene money. It is just silly because it is just the product of an overused die...... It's like if I wanted to sell you my truck with 250k miles on it and telling you that 250k miles made the truck better somehow... It's just silliness..... But in reality, it is smoke and mirrors used by people without scruples that are trying to part you from your money.
Unfortunately your dealer is highly mistaken about this. Fortunately the CT members that disagree with him are correct. They are two completely different items. Having said that, may I suggest that he is stating this to increase his sales and the price he receives? But don’t take it from me as I’m not an expert. I’m just a collector for over 65 years. I copied this from NGC , a top tier third party grader. Copied from NGC The distinction between genuine die doubling and mechanical doubling can be subtle, but they can easily be differentiated with just a loupe and a bit of knowledge. One of the more common questions that NGC Customer Service receives is regarding the difference between a doubled die and machine doubling. This distinction is very important, because a doubled die variety may be worth a large premium, while machine doubling is a mere novelty and does not usually add value. Double dies A true doubled die is a variety in that it is created during the die making process. As a result, the doubling will appear on every coin struck from that die. In the past, doubled die errors were often much more dramatic due to the process in which dies were created. This method often required multiple impressions from a working hub to impart the detail into a die. If the hub or die shifted at all during this process, the finished die would feature two distinct impressions with separation between them. The design, letters and digits will be doubled. 1955 Doubled Die Obverse Lincoln Cent Click images to enlarge. One of the most famous doubled die coins is, of course, the 1955 Lincoln Cent with a doubled die obverse. It is extremely rare that such dramatic doubling would slip through unnoticed at the US Mint. At the time, the Philadelphia Mint was running two 12-hour shifts in order to help alleviate a cent shortage. At least seven people were supposed to have inspected the die before it was put into use, but that clearly was not the case here. Instead, the die was placed in service for a midnight to 8:00 am shift. The problem was not discovered until some 20,000-24,000 cents had already been mixed in with the millions of other cents struck that night. The Chief Coiner of the Philadelphia Mint, Sydney C. Engel, decided to let the coins through instead of melting a total of approximately 10 million cents to contain them. Those 1955 Doubled Die Obverse Lincoln cents are now one of the most sought-after varieties in coin collecting. Mechanical doubling On the other hand, there is mechanical doubling. This type of doubling, which is also known as strike, ejection, shelf or shift doubling, is not the result of the design on the die being doubled. Rather, this type of doubling occurs when the die strikes a planchet. If the die is not properly seated, it can move slightly or bounce during the moment of striking, creating a flat, shelf-like doubling. This effect will be different on all coins struck, so it is technically not a variety, but rather more of a striking error. Example of machine or strike doubling. Above is an example of machine or strike doubling. Notice how the doubling is very flat in appearance and there are serifs in the letters that are not separated. Example of a genuine doubled die coin Click images to enlarge. Above is another example of a genuine doubled die coin (the 1972 Doubled Die Obverse Lincoln Cent). Notice how there is a clear separation between the serifs on all the letters. This proves that the doubling was created during the hubbing process rather than during the striking of the actual coin. Sometimes however, both types of doubling can be seen on the same coin, such as on the coin below. 1951 Romania 2 Lei with a doubled die and also mechanical doubling 1951 Romania 2 Lei where the doubled die has been shaded blue and the mechanical doubling has been shaded red. The above coin is a 1951 Romania 2 Lei. There is very pronounced doubling on all the numerals in the date. However, this coin also has mechanical doubling! In the second photo, the doubled die has been shaded blue, whereas the mechanical doubling is red. As you can see, the die doubling looks exactly like the primary numeral only shifted to the west. There is clear separation between the two, including split serifs. On the other hand, the red-shaded strike doubling is much flatter in appearance, and there is no separation between it and the main number. Hunting for varieties can be a very fun and rewarding endeavor, but it is important to know what is truly a variety. Hopefully this article can help you to discern the difference between doubled die coins and coins with mechanical doubling.
