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<p>[QUOTE="David Atherton, post: 3118948, member: 82616"]In a recent post by [USER=19463]@dougsmit[/USER] <a href="https://www.cointalk.com/threads/poll-which-claudius-ii-floats-your-boat.318755/page-2#post-3116448" class="internalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="https://www.cointalk.com/threads/poll-which-claudius-ii-floats-your-boat.318755/page-2#post-3116448">https://www.cointalk.com/threads/poll-which-claudius-ii-floats-your-boat.318755/page-2#post-3116448</a> he questioned the significance of dots on some of the denarii of Septimius Severus. It prompted me to examine more closely the dots that occasionally appear on Flavian denarii.</p><p><br /></p><p>They first show up on the denarii of Titus, both left and right facing portraits, normally at the end of the obverse legend.</p><p><br /></p><p>[ATTACH=full]793149[/ATTACH]</p><p><b>Titus</b></p><p>AR Denarius, 3.20g</p><p>Rome mint, 79 AD</p><p>RIC 35 (R). BMC 11. RSC 268a.</p><p>Obv: IMP TITVS CAES VESPASIAN AVG P M •; Head of Titus, Laureate, bearded, l.</p><p>Rev: TR P VIIII IMP XIIII COS VII P P; Venus stg. r. leaning on column, with helmet and spear</p><p><br /></p><p>[ATTACH=full]793150[/ATTACH]</p><p><b>Titus</b></p><p>AR Denarius, 3.31g</p><p>Rome Mint, 79 - 80 AD</p><p>RIC 89 (C). BMC 106. RSC 25.</p><p>Obv: IMP TITVS CAES VESPASIAN AVG PM •; Head of Titus, laureate, bearded, r.</p><p>Rev: BONVS EVEN - TVS AVGVSTI; Bonus Eventus, a naked youth, standing l., holding patera in extended r. hand and corn-ears and poppy in l.</p><p><br /></p><p>There is no discernible pattern here, other than the fact the earliest denarii struck under Titus do not have dots. In the issues that do feature dots about one out of three denarii have them.</p><p><br /></p><p>They also appear on the denarii struck for Julia Titi and Domitian as Caesar under Titus.</p><p><br /></p><p>[ATTACH=full]793151[/ATTACH]</p><p><b>Julia Titi</b></p><p>AR Denarius, 3.22g</p><p>Rome mint, 80-81 AD (Titus)</p><p>RIC 387 (R). BMC 140. RSC 12.</p><p>Obv: IVLIA AVGVSTA T AVG F •; Bust of Julia Titi, draped and diademed, r., hair in long plait</p><p>Rev: VENVS - AVG; Venus stg. r., leaning on column, with helmet and spear</p><p><br /></p><p>[ATTACH=full]793152[/ATTACH]</p><p><b>Domitian as Caesar</b></p><p>AR Denarius, 3.09g</p><p>Rome Mint, 80 AD (Titus)</p><p>RIC 267(C). BMC 88. RSC 390.</p><p>Obv: CAESAR DIVI F DOMITIANVS COS VII •; Head of Domitian, laureate, bearded, r.</p><p>Rev: PRINCEPS - IVVENTVTIS; Goat standing l., in laurel-wreath.</p><p><br /></p><p>Dots appear on Titus's cistophori struck at Rome for Asia Minor.</p><p><br /></p><p>[ATTACH=full]793156[/ATTACH]</p><p><b>Titus</b></p><p>AR Cistophorus, 10.64g</p><p>Rome mint (for Asia), 80-81 AD</p><p>RIC 515 (R). BMC spec. acquired 1948. RSC - . RPC 860 (3 spec.).</p><p>Obv: IMP TITVS CAES - VESPASIAN AVG P M •; Head of Titus, laureate, bearded, r.</p><p>Rev: CAPIT across field, RESTIT in exergue; Temple of Capitoline Jupiter with 4 columns enclosing figures of Juno, seated Jupiter and Minverva</p><p><br /></p><p><br /></p><p><br /></p><p>Dots show up again in the reign of Domitian, but not right away. They appear a few years after Domitian's coinage reform of 82 AD. This time they appear within the legend, usually multiple times.</p><p><br /></p><p>This denarius from 85 has no less than four dots - after IMP, AVG, and POTES P P.</p><p><br /></p><p>[ATTACH=full]793157[/ATTACH]</p><p><b>Domitian</b></p><p>AR Denarius, 3.35g</p><p>Rome mint, 85 AD</p><p>RIC 328 (R2). BMC (spec. acquired 1987). RSC - .</p><p>Obv: IMP•CAES DOMIT AVG• - GERM P M TR P IIII; Bust of Domitian, laureate, bearded, r., with aegis</p><p>Rev: IMP•VIIII COS•XI - CENS POTES•P•P; Minerva stg. r. on capital of rostral column, with spear and shield; to r., owl (M2)</p><p><br /></p><p>This one has five - after IMP and CENS on the reverse and spacing out POT P P.</p><p><br /></p><p>[ATTACH=full]793158[/ATTACH]</p><p><b>Domitian</b></p><p>AR Denarius, 3.41g</p><p>Rome mint, 85 AD</p><p>RIC 335 (R2). BMC p. 315 note. RSC 178 corr.</p><p>Obv: IMP CAES DOMIT AVG GERM P M TR P IIII; Head of Domitian, laureate, bearded, r.</p><p>Rev: IMP•VIIII COS XI - CENS•POT•P•P•; Minerva stg. l., with thunderbolt and spear; shield at her side (M3)</p><p><br /></p><p>This one has a staggering seven dots - after IMP, GERM, CENS, and in between P M and P P.</p><p><br /></p><p>[ATTACH=full]793160[/ATTACH]</p><p><b>Domitian</b></p><p>AR Denarius, 3.20g</p><p>Rome mint, 85 AD (fifth issue)</p><p>RIC 344 (R2). BMC - . RSC 186.</p><p>Obv: IMP•CAES DOMIT AVG GERM•P•M TR P V; Head of Domitian, laureate, bearded, r.</p><p>Rev: IMP•VIIII COS XI - CENS•POT P•P•; Minerva stg. l., with thunderbolt and spear; shield at her side (M3)</p><p><br /></p><p><br /></p><p>The dots when present seem to show up in regular spaces, commonly after IMP, DOMIT and AVG, and for spacing out any of the combinations of P P P. Rarely anywhere else. Perhaps they are internal officina control marks?</p><p><br /></p><p>After 88/89, dots completely disappear from Domitian's coinage never to return. These are a couple of the latest dated denarii I have with dots, again spacing out P P P.</p><p><br /></p><p><br /></p><p>[ATTACH=full]793172[/ATTACH]</p><p><b>Domitian</b></p><p>AR Denarius, 3.44g</p><p>Rome mint, 88-89 AD</p><p>RIC 656 (R). BMC 147. RSC 246.</p><p>Obv: IMP CAES DOMIT AVG - GERM P M TR P VIII; Head of Domitian, laureate, bearded, r.</p><p>Rev: IMP XVII COS XIIII CENS•P•P•P•; Minerva adv r., with spear and shield (M1)</p><p><br /></p><p>Across field too.</p><p><br /></p><p>[ATTACH=full]793210[/ATTACH]</p><p><b>Domitian</b></p><p>AR Denarius, 3.12g</p><p>Rome mint, 88 AD</p><p>RIC 568 (R2). BMC 139. RSC 27.</p><p>Obv: IMP CAES DOMIT AVG GERMANIC COS XIIII; Head of Domitian, laureate, bearded, r.</p><p>Rev: CENS - P•P•P• across field; Minerva stg. l., with thunderbolt and spear; shield at her l. side (M3)</p><p><br /></p><p>It may very well be that the dots are nothing more than space fillers, but I have a hunch they are some sort of internal mint control marks. The fact they appear most regularly at certain points in the legend and not at random speaks to a pattern of usage. Figuring out that pattern will take more time, but hopefully it will be a very fruitful endeavour.[/QUOTE]</p><p><br /></p>
[QUOTE="David Atherton, post: 3118948, member: 82616"]In a recent post by [USER=19463]@dougsmit[/USER] [url]https://www.cointalk.com/threads/poll-which-claudius-ii-floats-your-boat.318755/page-2#post-3116448[/url] he questioned the significance of dots on some of the denarii of Septimius Severus. It prompted me to examine more closely the dots that occasionally appear on Flavian denarii. They first show up on the denarii of Titus, both left and right facing portraits, normally at the end of the obverse legend. [ATTACH=full]793149[/ATTACH] [B]Titus[/B] AR Denarius, 3.20g Rome mint, 79 AD RIC 35 (R). BMC 11. RSC 268a. Obv: IMP TITVS CAES VESPASIAN AVG P M •; Head of Titus, Laureate, bearded, l. Rev: TR P VIIII IMP XIIII COS VII P P; Venus stg. r. leaning on column, with helmet and spear [ATTACH=full]793150[/ATTACH] [B]Titus[/B] AR Denarius, 3.31g Rome Mint, 79 - 80 AD RIC 89 (C). BMC 106. RSC 25. Obv: IMP TITVS CAES VESPASIAN AVG PM •; Head of Titus, laureate, bearded, r. Rev: BONVS EVEN - TVS AVGVSTI; Bonus Eventus, a naked youth, standing l., holding patera in extended r. hand and corn-ears and poppy in l. There is no discernible pattern here, other than the fact the earliest denarii struck under Titus do not have dots. In the issues that do feature dots about one out of three denarii have them. They also appear on the denarii struck for Julia Titi and Domitian as Caesar under Titus. [ATTACH=full]793151[/ATTACH] [B]Julia Titi[/B] AR Denarius, 3.22g Rome mint, 80-81 AD (Titus) RIC 387 (R). BMC 140. RSC 12. Obv: IVLIA AVGVSTA T AVG F •; Bust of Julia Titi, draped and diademed, r., hair in long plait Rev: VENVS - AVG; Venus stg. r., leaning on column, with helmet and spear [ATTACH=full]793152[/ATTACH] [B]Domitian as Caesar[/B] AR Denarius, 3.09g Rome Mint, 80 AD (Titus) RIC 267(C). BMC 88. RSC 390. Obv: CAESAR DIVI F DOMITIANVS COS VII •; Head of Domitian, laureate, bearded, r. Rev: PRINCEPS - IVVENTVTIS; Goat standing l., in laurel-wreath. Dots appear on Titus's cistophori struck at Rome for Asia Minor. [ATTACH=full]793156[/ATTACH] [B]Titus[/B] AR Cistophorus, 10.64g Rome mint (for Asia), 80-81 AD RIC 515 (R). BMC spec. acquired 1948. RSC - . RPC 860 (3 spec.). Obv: IMP TITVS CAES - VESPASIAN AVG P M •; Head of Titus, laureate, bearded, r. Rev: CAPIT across field, RESTIT in exergue; Temple of Capitoline Jupiter with 4 columns enclosing figures of Juno, seated Jupiter and Minverva Dots show up again in the reign of Domitian, but not right away. They appear a few years after Domitian's coinage reform of 82 AD. This time they appear within the legend, usually multiple times. This denarius from 85 has no less than four dots - after IMP, AVG, and POTES P P. [ATTACH=full]793157[/ATTACH] [B]Domitian[/B] AR Denarius, 3.35g Rome mint, 85 AD RIC 328 (R2). BMC (spec. acquired 1987). RSC - . Obv: IMP•CAES DOMIT AVG• - GERM P M TR P IIII; Bust of Domitian, laureate, bearded, r., with aegis Rev: IMP•VIIII COS•XI - CENS POTES•P•P; Minerva stg. r. on capital of rostral column, with spear and shield; to r., owl (M2) This one has five - after IMP and CENS on the reverse and spacing out POT P P. [ATTACH=full]793158[/ATTACH] [B]Domitian[/B] AR Denarius, 3.41g Rome mint, 85 AD RIC 335 (R2). BMC p. 315 note. RSC 178 corr. Obv: IMP CAES DOMIT AVG GERM P M TR P IIII; Head of Domitian, laureate, bearded, r. Rev: IMP•VIIII COS XI - CENS•POT•P•P•; Minerva stg. l., with thunderbolt and spear; shield at her side (M3) This one has a staggering seven dots - after IMP, GERM, CENS, and in between P M and P P. [ATTACH=full]793160[/ATTACH] [B]Domitian[/B] AR Denarius, 3.20g Rome mint, 85 AD (fifth issue) RIC 344 (R2). BMC - . RSC 186. Obv: IMP•CAES DOMIT AVG GERM•P•M TR P V; Head of Domitian, laureate, bearded, r. Rev: IMP•VIIII COS XI - CENS•POT P•P•; Minerva stg. l., with thunderbolt and spear; shield at her side (M3) The dots when present seem to show up in regular spaces, commonly after IMP, DOMIT and AVG, and for spacing out any of the combinations of P P P. Rarely anywhere else. Perhaps they are internal officina control marks? After 88/89, dots completely disappear from Domitian's coinage never to return. These are a couple of the latest dated denarii I have with dots, again spacing out P P P. [ATTACH=full]793172[/ATTACH] [B]Domitian[/B] AR Denarius, 3.44g Rome mint, 88-89 AD RIC 656 (R). BMC 147. RSC 246. Obv: IMP CAES DOMIT AVG - GERM P M TR P VIII; Head of Domitian, laureate, bearded, r. Rev: IMP XVII COS XIIII CENS•P•P•P•; Minerva adv r., with spear and shield (M1) Across field too. [ATTACH=full]793210[/ATTACH] [B]Domitian[/B] AR Denarius, 3.12g Rome mint, 88 AD RIC 568 (R2). BMC 139. RSC 27. Obv: IMP CAES DOMIT AVG GERMANIC COS XIIII; Head of Domitian, laureate, bearded, r. Rev: CENS - P•P•P• across field; Minerva stg. l., with thunderbolt and spear; shield at her l. side (M3) It may very well be that the dots are nothing more than space fillers, but I have a hunch they are some sort of internal mint control marks. The fact they appear most regularly at certain points in the legend and not at random speaks to a pattern of usage. Figuring out that pattern will take more time, but hopefully it will be a very fruitful endeavour.[/QUOTE]
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