Dots, Dots, And More Dots ...

Discussion in 'Ancient Coins' started by David Atherton, Jun 29, 2018.

  1. maridvnvm

    maridvnvm Well-Known Member

    BONA SPES Dot
    [​IMG]
    BONAE SPEI Dot Dot
    [​IMG]
    MONETA Dot Dot AVG
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    MONET Dot A Dot E
    [​IMG]
    MINER VICT Dot Dot
    [​IMG]
    All from Emesa. I don't have a single dot from Laodicea.
     
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  3. maridvnvm

    maridvnvm Well-Known Member

    There are lots of dots on the shorter obverse legends for Probus from Lugdunum.
    IMP PROBVS Dot P Dot F Dot AVG
    [​IMG]
    IMP Dot PROBVS AVG
    [​IMG]
     
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  4. David Atherton

    David Atherton Flavian Fanatic

    I have not been able to locate other coins with triangular dots. Do they show up on other denarii struck for SS? A most fascinating 'meaningless accident'!
     
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  5. maridvnvm

    maridvnvm Well-Known Member

    My last Severan example posted (MINER VICT) has triangular dots.
     
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  6. David Atherton

    David Atherton Flavian Fanatic

    I understand they are not common?
     
  7. benhur767

    benhur767 Sapere aude

    Here are three Severan coins from the mint of Rome with dots that look more like dashes or hyphens. As others have already said, they seem to function as spacers or "space fillers". On the second coin below, a more-or-less round dot appears directly below Caracalla's portrait.

    They were used inconsistently, though. Why are some parts of the inscription worthy of spacing or separation, and others not. For example, for the inscription LIBERALITAS AVG • V, it seems logical to separate the number from the rest of the inscription, as a way to emphasize that this is indeed the V liberalitas and not the IV or VI. But on the coin of Septimius Severus (first coin below), with the inscription PM TR P X • I COS III • P • P, it seems random and irrational to separate XI, and also to separate P P but not the other abbreviations.

    There is a typographic term for these "dots." They are more properly called bullets.


    ––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––
    sev_mk_2016_1109_01.jpg
    Septimius Severus. AR denarius, Rome, 203 CE; 18mm, 3.24g, 6h. BMCRE 432–3, Hill 602 (C), RIC 189b, RSC 461. Obv: SEVERVS – PIVS AVG; head laureate r. Rx: P M TR P X • I COS III • P • P; Fortuna seated l., holding rudder and cornucopia; wheel below seat.

    ––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––
    car_mk_2013_0529_01.jpg
    Caracalla. AR denarius, Rome, 211 CE; 18mm, 3.13g, 12h. BMCRE 76, Hill 1293 (S), RIC 216, RSC 129. Obv: ANTONINVS PIVS AVG BRIT •; man’s laureate head, bearded, r. Rx: LIBERALITAS AVG • VI; Liberalitas standing left, coin counter in r. hand, cornucopia in l.

    ––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––
    ela_mk_2014_1105_01.jpg
    Elagabalus. AR denarius, Rome, 219 CE; 19mm, 3.74g, 12h. BMCRE 117–9, RIC 139, RSC 261. Obv: IMP CAES ANTONINVS AVG; laureate and draped bust r. Rx: SALVS • ANTONINI AVG; Salus standing r., feeding a snake, which she holds in her arms.
     

    Attached Files:

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  8. Roman Collector

    Roman Collector Well-Known Member

    I've had this coin for about 15 years and never noticed the dots between the words in the inscription until I rephotographed it today:

    Elagabalus and Maesa Marcianopolis Dikaiosyne.jpg
    Elagabalus, Augustus AD 218-222, with grandmother, Julia Maesa, Augusta AD 218-224/5.
    Roman provincial Æ pentassarion, 14.55 g, 28.4 mm, 12:00.
    Moesia Inferior, Marcianopolis, under Legate Julius Antonius Seleucus, AD 220-221.
    Obv: ΑVΤ·Κ·Μ·ΑVΡΗ·ΑΝΤΩΝΕΙΝΟC·ΙΟVΛΙΑ·ΜΑΙCΑ·ΑVΓ·, Laureate head of Elagabalus, right, facing diademed and draped bust of Julia Maesa, left.
    Rev: VΠ·ΙΟV·ΑΝΤ·CΕΛΕVΚΟV ΜΑΡΚΙΑΝΟΠΟΛΙ-ΤΩΝ, Dikaiosyne standing left, holding scales and cornucopiae; E (5) in field, right
    Refs: Moushmov --; AMNG 962; Varbanov 1620; Mionnet S. 2, 101, 273; similar to BMC 3. 36, 63.
     
    Last edited: Jul 22, 2018
  9. arashpour

    arashpour Well-Known Member

    Here is my Only domitian without dot


    Domitian1.jpg Domitian2.jpg

    and septimus severus

    septSeverus.jpg
     
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  10. jamesicus

    jamesicus Well-Known Member

    I missed this post (that will teach me to lurk more). If I have followed correctly, I think the discussion has focused mainly on the use of dots as coin attribution devices?

    The dots that were used as word spacers in Monument and Tombstone Inscriptions in Ancient Rome are called Interpuncts (“to catch a breath”). I think they were only used sporadically (as space fillers) on coins because of the limited space available. If you google “Interpuncts” you will find numerous references available. The following link is to a reference that I have used on occasion because it contains some useful background information:

    http://rodcorp.typepad.com/rodcorp/2008/03/middle-dot-inte.html

    If you would like to type interpuncts in the coin legends on the images you post here (just for fun?) you can do it by holding down the Alt key and typing 0183 using the number pad on your computer (will not work on iPhone or iPad) · like that. (I am a windows guy - I don’t know the sequence for MAC).

    I was a member of the Southern Arizona Scribes many year’s ago and members used to conduct workshops at their homes from time to time relating to their particular areas of expertise or specialization. I thought there would be a lot of interest in the association between Roman coins and the Capitalis Monumentalis lettering employed by the engravers for the legends on them. So I made up the following flyer and handed it out at one of our monthly meetings:

    [​IMG]

    Well, only four people showed up! Probably because of my long-winded
    reputation and the fact that I forgot to mention the refreshments included a glass (or two) of red wine! Anyway the ones who attended (and me) had a good time! Actually I included the above image as a way of illustrating the use of Interpunct (middle dot) spacers between words in Roman Capitalis Monumentalis inscriptional lettering. I did overuse Interpuncts to make a point (pun intended). I think it illustrates how it would have been impractical for its’ general employment on coins due to the very limited space available on coin flans.
     
    Last edited: Jul 22, 2018
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  11. Roman Collector

    Roman Collector Well-Known Member

    Let's·see·how·it·works! Wow! It does!
     
  12. jamesicus

    jamesicus Well-Known Member

    BTW, In typography the bold center dots are called bullets - Interpuncts are normal weight center dots.
     
  13. TIF

    TIF Always learning.

    It's nice to know the name for them! Thanks :)
     
  14. jamesicus

    jamesicus Well-Known Member

    You are welcome @TIF - BTW, I have seen the dots on Roman Coins that are not part of the legends described as pellets - I recall that descriptor being used with LRB “camp gate” coin reverses.
     
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  15. Valentinian

    Valentinian Well-Known Member

    I use a MacBook and
    option 8
    makes a dot:

    Good to know!
     
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  16. jamesicus

    jamesicus Well-Known Member

    .......... and maybe here above the head of Augustus?

    [​IMG][​IMG]
     
  17. jamesicus

    jamesicus Well-Known Member

    But should be normal weight, not bold.
     
  18. Valentinian

    Valentinian Well-Known Member

    Right. I decided to explore my Mac for symbols and found a shortcut
    Control-Command-Space bar
    for the menu that yields many sets of options (emoji, arrows, math symbols, currency symbols (£) etc.) and one is marked "*" for "bullets and stars" which has some symbols that can be found on coins, including dots to∙separate∙words.
    I found "KATAKANA MIDDLE DOT" in that menu (・) and the spacing・on・either・side・was・too・large, but the "Font variation" part of that same menu allowed me to pick a smaller font which∙worked∙to∙fix∙that∙problem. Then I added it too the "Favorites" part of the
    Control-Command-Space bar
    result so I don't have to do that all again. Now∙it∙works∙straight∙from∙the∙Favorites∙menu.

    I do not claim this is the best way to type that type of dot on a Mac, but it works. Mac users, let us know a better way!
     
    Last edited: Jul 23, 2018
  19. jamesicus

    jamesicus Well-Known Member

    Great stuff @Valentinian - thanks!
     
  20. lrbguy

    lrbguy Well-Known Member

    Very·good·to·know.
     
  21. Alegandron

    Alegandron "ΤΩΙ ΚΡΑΤΙΣΤΩΙ..." ΜΕΓΑΣ ΑΛΕΞΑΝΔΡΟΣ, June 323 BCE

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