Don't be dumb, never pay for your coins using Paypal's gift payment

Discussion in 'Coin Chat' started by Peter T Davis, Aug 28, 2014.

  1. Blaubart

    Blaubart Melt Value = 4.50

    One example that I don't quite understand is how a business the size of Provident Metals gets away with their policy of advertising different prices based on payment method. It can't be that they're simply flying under the radar. Perhaps their payment processor was willing to negotiate different ToS based on the nature of their business.
     
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  3. Tinpot

    Tinpot Well-Known Member

    Well the payment processors I'm sure have made the decision that they'd rather have some of Provident Metals business rather than none of it.

    Most/all of the big bullion dealers offer a 3% cash discount.
     
  4. SilverSurfer415

    SilverSurfer415 Well-Known Member

    I'll rather pay the $103-105 instead of sending people $100 paypal gift.
     
  5. josh's coins

    josh's coins Well-Known Member

    Like I said the likelihood is slim to none but still possible and should be noticed. That it all.
     
  6. midas1

    midas1 Exalted Member

    I've been using PP for years what's the problem with PP gift payment?
    I have never paid with a PP gift payment.

    Mike
     
  7. CamaroDMD

    CamaroDMD [Insert Clever Title] Supporter

    Basically, using PP gift avoids some of the fees. It's not intended for purchase/sales of products...it's just for sending money (as a gift). So, there is absolutely no protection from PP if something goes wrong. It puts the buyer at a huge risk.
     
    geekpryde and midas1 like this.
  8. Teddydogno1

    Teddydogno1 Well-Known Member

    The distinction is that while charging MORE for using a credit card is not OK, giving a DISCOUNT for paying cash is fine. You'll note that companies like them say prominently that the listed prices represent a 3% cash discount. What the CC companies don't want is a "bait and switch" atmosphere where you think the price is $100 right up until you whip out the plastic.

    Rob
     
  9. Tinpot

    Tinpot Well-Known Member

    Actually all prices shown on the major bullion sites ARE the cash discounted price. So for example if the price is shown as $100, it will be $103 if you are paying via CC.
     
  10. Teddydogno1

    Teddydogno1 Well-Known Member

    That's what I said.

    Rob
     
  11. Tinpot

    Tinpot Well-Known Member

    The price is a $100 right till you "whip the plastic out" then the 3% is added to the total. (I thought you were suggesting that that's what the CC companies didn't want, but I may of misunderstood)
     
    Last edited: Aug 31, 2014
  12. Teddydogno1

    Teddydogno1 Well-Known Member

    But they clearly state that the prices are "cash discount" and even let you choose to change to displaying CC prices (at least at Provident, which was the example I responded to above). This is what Provident shows by default:

    cash_price.gif

    Its really all just a technical difference anyway, but details DO matter.

    Rob
     
    Tinpot likes this.
  13. Peter T Davis

    Peter T Davis Hammer at the Ready Moderator

    To me, it also calls into question the integrity of the seller. If they're willing to cheat Paypal out of the fee (not that I care either way about Paypal), what else are they willing to cheat? It's a slippery slope, either a person is scrupulous or they are not. Once you start down the slippery slope, the question is how far will they go down it.
     
  14. Tinpot

    Tinpot Well-Known Member

    Some of the most honest people I know will not take regular paypal. These people have been trusted before with tens of thousands of dollars. If the way someone uses their paypal account not to paypals liking they can close their account or ban gifts. (it would be simple for paypal to implement a system where you can only send a certain amount of gifts or a certain $ amount)

    If you buy/sell gold silver bullion 3% is too much of a loss to take. (If you add 3% on top of the regular price then you are no longer competitive) Sometimes the margin can be as low as 1-2% profit on bullion.
     
    Last edited: Aug 31, 2014
    torontokuba likes this.
  15. -jeffB

    -jeffB Greshams LEO Supporter

    Refusing to take PayPal because of their terms of service, or because you don't like their fee structure, is a perfectly honest and principled thing to do.

    Trying to circumvent PayPal fees by using "gift" transfers isn't.

    If an additional 3% margin on bullion makes you not competitive, what does cutting out PayPal (and/or credit card) customers do?

    Also, if 3% is too much of a loss to take, I wonder how anyone ever sells to customers in states that charge sales tax on bullion purchases...?
     
    drathbun likes this.
  16. Peter T Davis

    Peter T Davis Hammer at the Ready Moderator

    I understand that the bullion business works on very small margins, but saying that the small margin justifies cheating Paypal of its fee is just like saying that the USPS/UPS/FedEx should deliver the package for free because you're not making much money on it.
     
    geekpryde likes this.
  17. CamaroDMD

    CamaroDMD [Insert Clever Title] Supporter

    I can see where you are coming from...and I have at times wondered about certain sellers. I try and believe (unless given a reason otherwise) that the seller is simply trying to save on overhead and not being unscrupulous...but you never know for sure. Here is a great example from another site I am a member of:

    The seller here is a well known member of that site with an excellent track record. I don't think he is trying to be unscrupulous...just simply trying to save a few bucks at paypal's expense. I'm not sure if this is truly dishonest...but on the other hand, it's certainly not honest either.
     
  18. Peter T Davis

    Peter T Davis Hammer at the Ready Moderator

    I'm sure there are tons of examples of people asking for the Paypal gift payment who wouldn't otherwise be shady. It's a big difference between someone who brings a pen home from work and someone who takes $1000 out of the cash box to spend on their heroin habit, but both of course are technically stealing. I certainly don't mind someone adding in the Paypal fees to the cost of the transaction, so in that case if I decided to buy from him, and use Paypal, I'd pay him the $140. Not that I could afford whatever card that's about, mind you... ;)
     
  19. CamaroDMD

    CamaroDMD [Insert Clever Title] Supporter

    I would too. I'd have no problem adding the additional $5 and I honestly (despite it being against their policy) to add the surcharge.

    It happens to be a nicely graded 1970 Nolan Ryan...but the centering is off and that's the turn off for me (plus, I don't really care for the 1970 set design anyway).
     
  20. Tinpot

    Tinpot Well-Known Member

    Paypal knows what's going on and still does business with these customers. How is there any wrong doing going on when both sides know and understand what is happening?

    If I'm sitting on my couch and a friend comes over and grabs a beer from my fridge and I don't mind, he is NOT technically stealing my beer even though I never explicitly said he could have it.
     
  21. torontokuba

    torontokuba Thread Crapper & Hijacker, TP please.

    I've had no problems sending via paypal gift and once even received (without asking) via paypal gift. If the amount is not going to make or break you and you're dealing within a "circle of trust", isn't that alright?

     
    micbraun likes this.
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