Domitian denarius

Discussion in 'Ancient Coins' started by randygeki, May 22, 2010.

  1. randygeki

    randygeki Coin Collector

    Been trying to find a good denarius of Domitian and after thinking about it decided to go with this one :)


    IMP CAES DOMIT AVG GERM P M TR P XI, laureate head right,

    IMP XXI COS XVI CENS P P P, Minerva standing left, holding spear.

    Not to sure about the reference though.:hatch: RSC 271 or 272. RIC 733 ? the flip said ric 155. but the inscriptions different.
     

    Attached Files:

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  3. markw

    markw Junior Member

    Oh, that's really lovely.

    Monumental design.
     
  4. rexesq

    rexesq Senior Member

  5. randygeki

    randygeki Coin Collector

    thanks :) its a bit worn but I really liked teh style
     
  6. randygeki

    randygeki Coin Collector

    I was about satisfied with ric 272, then found a similar one for 271
     
  7. dougsmit

    dougsmit Member

    RSC 272 reads "Minerva with th. and sp." while 271 is "Minerva with spear". You have 271. Domitian had several Minerva types summarized at the top of page 52 on RSC (Roman Silver Coins by H. A. Seaby vol II). RSC follows the numbering system of Cohen from the 19th century placing the coins in alphabetical order by reverse legend. RIC is more scholarly placing the coins in groups by date issued. Be careful not to confuse the two different books. There is no easy way to convert one number system to another.

    This is one of the places that you can find the same Roman with only the date being different (like US coins). I attach for comparison an example of the "th." (thunderbolt) added version but mine (RSC264, RIC154) is a year earlier so the dating devices are one less than yours. The list on page 52 mentions the addition of the shield at the feet but it did not make all the listings abbreviated "th. and sp." With all the different poses and legend changes, there must be close to a hundred different Minerva denarii of Domitian.
     

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  8. randygeki

    randygeki Coin Collector

    Thank you Doug! :hail:

    No kidding! So many examples to go through:goofer:
     
  9. randygeki

    randygeki Coin Collector

    heres my pic of it.
     

    Attached Files:

  10. dougsmit

    dougsmit Member

    Your lighting is better
     
  11. randygeki

    randygeki Coin Collector

    Thanks :) still a little fuzzy though ;/
     
  12. randygeki

    randygeki Coin Collector

    Hers a little bit of info if anyone is interested


    Titus Flavius Domitianus (24 October 51 – 18 September 96), known as Domitian, was the eleventh Roman Emperor, who reigned from 14 September 81 until his death. Domitian was the third and last emperor of the Flavian dynasty, the house which ruled the Roman Empire between 69 and 96 and encompassed the reigns of Domitian's father Vespasian (69–79), his older brother Titus (79–81), and that of Domitian himself.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Domitian



    On 18 September, A.D. 96, Domitian was assassinated and was succeeded on the very same day by M. Cocceius Nerva, a senator and one of his amici. The sources are unanimous in stressing that this was a palace plot, yet it is difficult to determine the level of culpability among the various potential conspirators.[[23]]
    In many ways, Domitian is still a mystery - a lazy and licentious ruler by some accounts, an ambitious administrator and keeper of traditional Roman religion by others.[[24]] As many of his economic, provincial, and military policies reveal, he was efficient and practical in much that he undertook, yet he also did nothing to hide the harsher despotic realities of his rule. This fact, combined with his solitary personality and frequent absences from Rome, guaranteed a harsh portrayal of his rule. The ultimate truths of his reign remain difficult to know.

    http://www.roman-emperors.org/domitian.htm



    By all accounts Domitian appears to have been a thoroughly nasty person, rarely polite, insolent, arrogant and cruel.
    He was a tall man, with large eyes, though weak sight.
    And showing all the signs of someone drunk with power, he preferred to be addressed as 'dominus et deus' ('master and god').

    http://www.roman-empire.net/emperors/domitian-index.html

    Domitian is described as tall and reasonably handsome with a tendency to blush (Dom. 18). Like his father he became bald as he aged and wrote a pamphlet titled The Care of the Hair, in which he quoted a line from the Iliad on the short-lived quality of beauty. His choice of words indicates that Domitian was a realist. Martial made reference to Domitian’s baldness in a poem (5.49) and suffered no bad effects from the comment, so the emperor can be said to have had a tolerant disposition. Rather than being sexually promiscuous, he seems to have been something of a prude. Domitian refused to kiss the hand of Caenis, his father’s mistress, disapproving of her relationship with his father. His enforcement of morality laws followed the example of Augustus in upholding traditional virtues. The message on the extant portions of the frieze of the Temple of Minerva in Domitian’s forum is clear that duty, the assumption of one’s proper place in society and obedience were the virtues the emperor wished to instill.

    http://www.forumancientcoins.com/Alex/index.html
     

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  13. Eduard

    Eduard Supporter**

    Interesting randy, thanks for posting. As always, the HISTORY behind the coin is as interesting, if not more, than the coin itself.

    Domitian was also responsible for leading a campaign against Germanic tribes in the region of central Germany where I live. He seems to have been personally involved, and did none too bad a job of it. So at least he showed some redeeming qualities as a military commander.
     
  14. rexesq

    rexesq Senior Member

    Very cool, thanks for sharing randy. I have yet to obtain any coins of the Flavian dynasty myself, but I find some of the Domitian coins beautiful. I guess I'm just waiting for the right one to come along...
    Keep up the good work randy, impressive collection.
     
  15. randygeki

    randygeki Coin Collector

    Thanks :) Atleast with Domitian, we can be a little picky in the coins that meet our budgets, wish I could same the same for coins of Titus

    I've been going beyond the 12 ceasars for more info on the Flavians. On a similar topic at forvm, with a very simalr coin even lol, to quote one of the posts

    "He wasn't the bloodthirsty tyrant most ancient authors claimed he was. Don’t forget that most ancient writers wrote after Domitian Had died and a new dynasty was in power. This new dynasty had to legitimize itself and the murder on Domitian, by portraying him as a bad emperor.

    Modern historians have rejected these views and portray Domitian as an highly efficient emperor who took care of all parts of the imperial policy himself and laid the foundations of the peaceful second century. Brain Jones biography of Domitian is highly recommended if you would like more information on this emperor."

    versus another I posted below

    "By all accounts Domitian appears to have been a thoroughly nasty person"
     
  16. rexesq

    rexesq Senior Member

    Ah yes, well that's one of the things when it comes to ancient history.... alot of it was written after the fact... and many times by people with bias, so one never really knows. However it certainly does make things interesting....

    Speaking of Domitian... I almost bought a medium grade example of the 'princeps juventutis' denarius with the goat inside the wreath on the reverse.... I always fancied that particular design, but I decided to wait... being picky like you said... allthough the goat in wreath denarius seems a bit more scarce than many other Domitian pieces.
     
  17. randygeki

    randygeki Coin Collector

    even during the time, there was a bias towards to the truth :)

    As for scarcity of coins, I tend to find out after the fact lol. (weather I got the coin or passed up a killer deal one :eek: usualy the later )
     
  18. rexesq

    rexesq Senior Member

    Heh, yes... I know all too well how that goes.
     
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