http://www.ebay.com/itm/1907-HIGH-RELIEF-BU-20-GOLD-SAINT-GAUDENS-/180757980668?pt=Coins_US_Individual&hash=item2a1603e5fcHere's a 1907 HR $20 St. Gaudens in a SEGS holder (!) listed for nearly $16K. I'm not familiar with what "wire rim" is, and maybe thats what I see on the obverse, but I would not touch this coin with a 10-ft pole in that SEGS holder. I'm interested in what all of you see wrong with this coin/listing. Thanks.
I will add that I do not think the seller is trying to be dishonest or deceiving in his listing at all. My interest in this items revolves around why a coin of such value would be in a bottom rung TPG holder. I wonder if it was bodybagged by a reputable TPG at some point.
Either body bagged or the submitter knew it would be. Its sad, a lot of these coins were messed with over the years. I once had my favorite dealer ask me, "want to see something sad?" He pulled one of these out, and the seller inherited it, and had taken a metal polishing wheel to it to "make it brighter". Unc details down where the metal didnt scratch, the dealer paid melt.
A Good Deal? I personally have one in the same holder/grade, and would prefer mine to this: http://www.ebay.com/itm/1907-HIGH-RELIEF-DOUBLE-EAGLE-PCGS-MS63-/110636087738?pt=Coins_US_Individual&hash=item19c26cb9ba My coin was sight seen compared to many "top tier" TPG comparable grade coins, and I found numerous "market graded" coins in the other holders before purchasing the SEGS graded coin. If you look at the PCGS Reverse coin image in the auction that I've linked, you can see what I consider to be a poor example of partial wire rim from ~10 oclock to 2 oclock. The SEGS appears to have complete wire rim definition, which should be a paramount factor in grading a unique WIRE RIM coin. To each his own, but I personally have found more value in some of the 2nd tier TPG slabs, as I prefer to "buy the coin". I'm elated that many leave these treasures for re-submission. I personally can't tell if this "subject" coin would be a candidate for submission, but mine was purchased at half that price, seemingly eons ago. Relative to the current "market grading" standards, I believe that mine, when removed from the slab, would be an up-grade CAC candidate. JMHO :thumb:
I think it is possible the wire rims on both the obverse and the reverse were damaged ( and possibly manipulated back ). whether this would cause a bagging ? I sure wouldn't break it out and send it to PCGS myself.
I don't believe that SEGS is a bottom tier grading organization and would not hesitate to purchase a coin in one of their holders. To often, folks confuse SEGS with SGS. SGS wil encapsulate anything at 2 to 3 points over grade but I have not observed that with SEGS. I also think that the coin appears to be correctly graded as MS63, from my limited experience, although the rims have some hits and folks who are considering such a purchase had better really know about these before making the commitment. The bottom line is that it's a little less than an ounce of gold with much more numismatic collector value. Any coin of this nature should only be considered by collectors experienced in the series. I'm not one of them.
I have always thought that although SEGS is not considered a top tier TPG they are considered alright. With my limited experience I would say the seller is ok and is not trying to pull anything. The only thing concerning me is the no return policy.
I think it is a nice coin, but the luster bothers me a bit. I wonder if it is just the image. The TPS doesn't really bother me, I tend to agree with their grades quite often.
If both the PCGS and SEGS coins were the same price, from the images I would much rather have the SEGS coin. Considering the SEGS coin is less than half that of the PCGS coin I think it is even a better deal. So no it doesn't scare me a bit. You have to be careful with such judgements of images of coins in PCGS holders, the soft gasket they use in their inserts often "oozes" over and hides the rim of the coin. So the wire rim may be there but it has a layer of silicone rubber over it.
Thanks everyone for the comments- Just another reminder to me to buy the coin and not holder. And, I am guilty of confusing SEGS with SGS on occasion, including this one . I'll go back have some more humble pie now.
I just wouldn't touch it (if I had the money) because of many factors. First, the slab. Second, it is an expensive coin "online". And third, I don't know the seller. Which means that yes, it scares me to think someone would buy something like that online.
Well said. If I wish to write a check for a 5 figure coin, (no easy feat for me either), I would know the seller, see the coin in hand, before hand. People dropping that kind of money on a picture is scary. We have all seen examples of how pics get easily, (and sometimes not even intentionally), look much different than the coin in hand.
