Does this coin exist??? 1926 Albania 20 Franga KM10, Zog left.

Krause lists an 1926 issue of this coin. There is a 1926 issue of the Skanderbeg coin, but the Zog issue?? In 20+ years I've never seen one, only the 1927 (pictured). Yet the catalog suggests they are worth about the same amount. I would like to see Krause eliminate the 1926 issue from their catalog. If the coin exists at all, it's only as a pattern or prova.

Any comments??

Here's the 1927 issue...

 

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I'm looking at my 2010 edition of Standard Catalog of World coins and I see a 1926 Zog version.

Doesn't list the mintage, though.

 

Yup, it's in there, but I've never seen one in 20+ years of collecting Albanian gold coins. I've got every other gold coin struck under Zog except this 1926 coin, -all of them as circulation strikes, I don't collect the provas. I don't recall every seeing this coin even as a prova. The only thing that might prevent me from saying my collection is complete, is the absence of this one coin, and then I'm not conviced it even exists. Especially since the catalog value suggests its about as common as the 1927 issue, which while not real common, is available for less than a thousand.

 

The Central Bank of Albania does not list a 1926 variety of that coin:
http://www.bankofalbania.org/web/Coins_issued_in_the_period_of_time_1926_1945_2227_2.php

Christian

 

i'm with doug, every year it appears that new and unknown die varieties of uk coins are revealed and officially the mint says they don't exist, but they are clearly listed in all the specialist guides.

 

Well, how much more reliable or trustworthy is a source that lists the piece? Not that I know anything about this particular coin but if an apparently knowledgeable collector has never come across a 1926 piece, I wonder how common (or not) it is. By the way, the Schön lists both years as well, without any differentiation mintage of value wise.

Christian

 

The aforementioned 1929 Albanian 100 Franga was never struck for circulation, only as a prova. Which, in Krause at least, is listed in a seperate section of the catalog. As for Friedberg and Krause both listing the 1926 coin, I suspect Krause simply lifted the information from Frieberg without any verification of the coins existence. The fact that the value of the coin is obviously wrong, only reinforces the idea that the coin doesn't really exist, -certainly not as a circulation strike in any case. As for any coin not showing-up for 20+ years on the market, aside from unique or nearly unique specimens, it's pretty much unheard of. In the case of the Albanian 20 Frange Skenderbeg issue with the fasces privy mark, the coin has a mintage of 10 and yet I've seen it listed several times in the past 20 years in auction catalogs.

 

a 1954 penny isn't listed in most guides but not by the mint, but it sure as **** exists, a couple only are known but it is genuine. then there is the 1952 listed in guides but not by the mint, the 1937 australian george VI 3d not supposed to exist but one sold at auction for around £76,000 a few years ago, just because a mint does not list a coin doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

 

@princeofwaldo , @fred13 (and anyone else who knows the Albanian coins)...other than the 1926 Zog bust 20 FrA, is Krause also wrong about non-prova 1928 issues for the 1 and 2 FrA?

I've not seen them for sale or in the archives I've managed to search. I have been considering the three of these as 'unicorns', rumored but never seen...but I'm hardly an expert.

Shoot, the 2 FrA 1927 was a tough nut to crack, but at least they have been seen and I was finally able to acquire one of them from an auction house in Japan of all places (previous auction sighting in 2008 at Heritage). I'm sure there's more than just those two out there, but at least they exist!

 

Ha, I figured I'd resurrect this thread again.

I was re-reading an email correspondence with a person where I mentioned told this story, but at one point in the last year or so I spent my time and my access to the online Numismatist and went through the every single one looking for a sale of the 1926 Zog bust 20 FrA.

Plenty of listings for Albanian coins and exactly ONE with the 1926 Zog bust Frieberg number. No photo and frankly by that point a typo seemed more likely. Especially as the price was the same as for the 1927, and IIRC it was a seller with ads in multiple issues and the listing was never repeated.

Even the rare fasces minter's mark type Skanderbeg coin had some held back presumably by the mint or collectors when the rest were melted. 100 were produced, and 90 melted.

In the same 1926 time frame there was a note bearing a single headed eagle and it was recalled/not released due to looking 'too Italian' according to an Albanian bank translation.

Having no basis in reality, but the prominent fasces mark on the 1926 Skanderbeg coin was also pretty darn Italian and I have wondered if the first 100 (called 'trials' in the translated book) were in fact so distasteful to the Albanians the dies were re-worked. Perhaps the entire Zog bust version had been made with the fasces minter's mark as well? And recalled as the note was?

In any case, I still have yet to find one by rumor, photo, or sale.

 

I don't think it's too much to believe that Krause is wrong, and that it doesn't exist. There are plenty of mistakes in the catalogue. That's not a criticism: given the magnitude of their undertaking it is inevitable that some mistakes will creep in. As an example, take the Guernsey 4 doubles 1864/54. It doesn't exist, but is listed. Given the numbers involved, if it existed then it would be known. Pridmore doesn't list it. McCammon doesn't list it. There is no shred of evidence other than one line in a catalogue.



Given the scope of the internet, if the 1926 Zog existed then somewhere there would be some trace. A picture, a record of sale, something.

 

Well, Krause is wrong frequently with omissions. I consider it a nice starting place but anything in it has to be confirmed.

That said, the 1926 Zog 20 FrA is listed in every guide book I've looked at including some offbeat ones that might presumably be closer to someone looking at a primary source (think Italian price guides from the 1960s). Someday when I'm really retired I'll have to get this truly organized.

Short a visit to Italy and/or Albania though I feel unlikely to ever know more. Even if I get there, who knows how well any records survived the war?

 

My guess would be that an early source made the error, which was subsequently copied by the others.

 

An early mistake propagated by subsequent references did seem possible.

I've got a book from the Bank of Albania that says it does exist...but they don't have a picture of it either.

The same book also used a word that translated to 'trial' for the Skanderbeg coins with the fasces...like the first ones struck and were found lacking with the majority melted, and the subsequent coins released. Now, the trial work was not the same, nor used in the same context, as those coins that were produced as provas.

Maybe the issue got left behind when Zog ran for it, and the Italians melted them all. Even so, the Italian King was such a coin collector you'd think a FEW would have been saved.

 

Provas info. by ACoinJob posted Jan 23, 2019 at 6:01 PM

2013 World Book of Coins has the 1927 image, but nothing as for mintage of the 1926.

Same with the 2017 World Book of Coins issue, except they added grades, no mintage.

2017-WBoC-info. by ACoinJob posted Jan 23, 2019 at 5:44 PM

Provas info. in image. If it exists, maybe "Stacks" is who you might inquire about the info on that specific pattern... Just an idea. The Provas info for the 1926 R is a KM#12. Nothing as for a ZOG KM#11.

It's confusing because it says they exist, and then in the Provas says 100 were minted, but 90 were melted, lol. So if 10 in the world exist, extremely rare coins.

 

It’s confusing and I’m guessing some of the confusion is reflected in the catalogs.

The provas were made (apparently) as higher quality collector coins (like the French essais and Polish probas). Most of the Albanian provas did get a ‘circulation’ type coin as well, but not all of them. 1928 has several issues that are prova only of the gold ones. The 1928 minors are only provas as well as far as I can tell. BUT they do have the word prova on the coin itself.

1926 and 1927 have several of the regular type coins seen as provas however. The gold 100 FrA comes to mind, and I have also seen photos of the Prince Skanderbeg 1926 prova in an auction for example. Fasces mark free though. All have the word prova on the coin.

The 1926 Prince Skanderbeg with fasces mark coin is not a prova though—no word prova on it. I rechecked my google translate and the description was actually translated as a ‘test striking’. Which also makes sense if 100 were made (? rejected) and 90 melted. Perhaps it was die quality, perhaps it was the fasces, perhaps it was because the Italian mint people had a reason I don’t know.

In any case, this is straying from the mystery of the 1926 Zog bust. Was it minted? Were they documented as minted and the gold diverted? Were they melted? Rejected at the mint? Left behind in the Albanian treasury and disappeared into the pockets of the invading force? Failed the test strikes? I’m obviously grasping at straws and making stuff up here.

All I can say is there are multiple anomalies in the reported mintage figures of several issues including whether or not any made it past the prova stage. And even the provas aren’t consistent as some ended up as regular issues and some didn’t.

(And the proofs are something else entirely, there are a few proof coins out there, but these are typical proofs and don’t have the word prova on them! They are the 1931 1/2 and full lek minted in London, and 1938 20 FrA Royal Wedding and 100 FrA 10th Anniversary of Reign).

Maybe my retirement plan can be to learn to read/speak Albanian and Italian and then take a nice trip to the relevant mints, museums, and archives if any.