Does the redbook do beginer collectors a disservice

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It was better back in the day when seller and buyer would haggle a bit until they came to a price both could live with, and we didn't micro-grade everything either.

 

I am still waiting for "new and improved" slabs offering grades like MS64.73.

That should stop all of the disagreements, right?

 

Then explain how that works as every dealer I know goes off the greysheet for pricing. If it's taken from their own pricing, yet their using to determine their own pricing, where is it coming from? It's like paradox.
Guy

 

My guess is that a dealer sees lots of people wanting a coin, he gets a 64 of the coin but instead of pricing it based on the sheet, he bumps up the price $50. If it sells, he reports this as the new price.

Any dealer only using a sheet to price coins and ignoring current market demands is seriously undercutting his profit potential. This works both ways as well, he lists a coin at greysheet for a couple of months, it doesn't move, he sees other coins for sale cheaper so he marks his down $50 to get it to sell, then reports that as the new price.

Such a methodology, by definition, will be a little faulty since it will emphasize price increases quicker than price decreases. However, since this is good for both greysheet's and dealers business models, I bet they don't fret about it much.

 

If this happened a 1986 cent would retail for about $135,000 by now. Something aint right here.
Guy

 

Bottom line here is, there will never be an accurate price guide to buying coins, period. It really comes down to the seller and buyer coming together on a price they can both live with.

 

I am confused. How would a 1986 cent get reported as being sold at $135,000 by all of the dealers reporting in? That is what would have to happen. All of the dealers would all agree they have sold 1986 cents for $135,000 for the grey sheet to now list the price as $135,000. This is not "wishful" pricing sir, but reported transaction values. People can ask whatever they want, but are not supposed to report it to greysheet unless it actually sold at that value.

My only point is a dealer will price at what he can get, and will not just limit his potential income to what the sheet says. If a certain coin is hot, he will price accordingly, greysheet be darned, as well s/he should.

 

The greysheet is a wholesale dealer-to-dealer price guide. Auctions, by definitions, are liquidations, generally for cash only, as is, no returns. The Red Book, Coin World, and the PCGS guide are RETAIL price guides. And NONE of these publications actually buy coins or have any to sell. It all comes down to the "value" as what someone is willing to pay.

Same as the Kelley Blue Book in auto auctions. People pay full "wholesale" for old police cars with 300K miles, thinking they are getting a huge bargain.

 

Auction prices realized can be 75% lower if a coin was ugly, or 300% high if there was a bidding war or a perception of an undergrade or unmentioned variety. In any case, these are far too variable to use for pricing guides.

 

Nah, dey just love the mooney hub caps.........

 

It was an exagerated example. If every dealer marked the price of their stock up even a few percentage points from this week's grey sheet, lets say a common large cent is listed as $60 in VF-30. The dealer marks it up to say $65. I'm assuming most dealers mark their coin up as well. So, if that $60 list is now selling at $65 on average, then wouldn't the reported sell price be $65, thus reflecting that on next weeks sheet? Next weeks sheet arrives and that same coin is now listed at $65, so the dealers raise their price to $70. So, after a very short time, the price escalates without end. I know this isn't how it works or even the most common of coins would be priced beyond our means. Not to mention, I can't think of a single dealer who has the time or patience to report every sold price every week to anyone, so where exactly do the numbers come from? I think they either have to come from auction records, or they're just as made up as the other price guides.
Guy

 

We could always arm a beginner collector with this edition before they spend any of their hard earned cash