Does PCGS owe me?

I piggybacked on a submission with @jester3681 (thank you for spreading the love) which took months for PCGS to return to us. My portion was 3 coins and one came back with this:



Here is the coin with an Azores counterstamp.




I would have accepted authentic or fake but they chickened out so I'm not sure they did their job. I'd like to know what you guys think.


Here are my other 2 and I'll post the holders later.

 

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You need to call PCGS. What it looks like is they don't think the c/s is authentic. They get to keep your money. If those words used by that service mean they cannot make a decision - then they owe you a refund.

Others here who use PCGS should know for sure as they have gone through the same thing.

 

What adds to the frustration is that I had a token on the very same order returned to me because they don't have a number for it, and the impression I get is that they didn't want to do the legwork to establish one*. They didn't charge me for this one, but they charged for @H8_modern's Azores piece.

There seems to be no rhyme or reason to their billing.

* - The token was from Ireland and has established catalogue (Davis) numbers, so it isn't like I sent them something from way out in left field...

 

These are weasel words made up by corporate attorneys. As I posted above, call PCGS - nothing on website. "Authenticity Unverifiable" sounds similar to
"Questionable Authenticity" used by another TPGS. BUT, since they did not say "NOT GENUINE", it may be their "No Decision." I'll find out for you tomorrow as I'm going to NGC and several people over there are former PCGS employees.

 

The other three services NGC, ANACS, and ICG add new coins to there system as soon as they are received. I imagine the BS, stupid, nonsense # that PCGS uses screws up the system. PERHAPS, and I don't know but will try to find out, If #XXX25 is in the system and XXX26 is in the system and a coin that comes in that should be numbered close to #25 (ie.#26) but can't be because that number is taken... Who knows? Only the shadow knows.

 

PCGS website says code 86 is not refundable.

 

http://www.pcgs.com/news/no-grade-coins-pt3

 

http://www.pcgs.com/grades/

 

Really good info here. Not sure it sheds much light on the coin at hand (I held it myself and the surfaces appeared at worst cleaned, but not harshly altered...).

 

Yeah not justifying their decision in this particular case, but I knew they had a listing for their body bag codes on their website.

 

maybe in fact it cant be verified. Do you know if others exist like it? How many? If there's more than a handful, id think they could determine if genuine. Or maybe not, if they never graded more than one or something. In this latter case, i think theyd owe you a refund

 

Thanks Yankee! When a grading service cannot verify if a coin is genuine or not THEY HAVE PROVIDED NO SERVICE. I should very nicely ask for a credit and if it was not given I should post your experience on the CU chat board, write letters to CW and NN.

Never underestimate the power of collectors. NGC and PCGS were forced to stop body bagging coins and keeping the money years ago. Good Luck.

 

Looking at the specific coin, I can see why PCGS would say that. They know that 1829 50-c pieces are actual coins. They compared the coin in question to known exemplars based upon various diagnostics and determined that the coin is ineligible to receive a grade and may be considered altered.

 

There are Azores counterstamps known on a lot of different coins. I have one on a very worn 2 reales somewhere that I'll try to find and post. It's also a counterstamp that has many known counterfeits so they are difficult to verify but that is their sole job.

For those that are interested, here are the grades on the other 2.

 

Was the coin submitted at the "regular" Secure tier? The reason I ask is, although the coin is a standard US, non-hammered coin, it's possible that the countermarked coin would be considered a non-US, hammered coin. If that's the case, and the coin was submitted at the economy level, then I could see the problem. They would only be liable to research the coin as a 50-cent piece, and, in that case, the stamp would be unidentifiable or whatever.

 

PCGS has certified other Azores counterstrikes in different denominations and host coins.

 

This was submitted as a World Secure coin.

 

I would say they owe you money. They have absolutely no guarantee on what they gave you. A service that you paid for. It would be like the yardman pulling up to your house and not cutting the lawn because he can't see where it needs it, but charges you anyway just because he showed up.