Does Cardboard Ever Become Inert?

Discussion in 'Coin Chat' started by Randy Abercrombie, Mar 18, 2018.

  1. Randy Abercrombie

    Randy Abercrombie Supporter! Supporter

    I have to admit. I been collecting a long time and prior to joining this forum, I was not aware cardboard albums were acidic to our coins.

    The folder below is a 1960 Whitman folder. I purchased it mid 1980’s and it was maybe a third full. The dimes that came with the book are readily identifiable. They are the dark and unsightly toned dimes. It’s a low quality set and I haven’t thought about it much. But I do consider myself as temporarily charged with keeping this history safe for the next generation. Not to mention, low quality or not there are a few pricey pieces in here.

    So I am now wondering about this negative effect that cardboard has over silver. Do these acidic properties negate over time? The book was made in 1960 more than a half century ago. I rather like that the book is near as old as me, but not to the detriment of the dimes. Is cardboard forever damaging to silver?
    0CE6D1D9-A511-4EA9-9EFA-B916B962D5EA.jpeg D246D66B-00EE-4D08-80CA-4938D2D1A1E9.jpeg
     
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  3. spirityoda

    spirityoda Coin Junky

    if it were me I would get them out of there. wait for other opinions...
     
  4. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    Yup, it is. Until it finally rots away and turns into dust.

    And with those old Whitman folders, it's not just the cardboard that is a problem. It is also the glue that the opposite side of the coin is always directly against.
     
  5. Randy Abercrombie

    Randy Abercrombie Supporter! Supporter

    Glad I asked. Reckon I’ll be shopping for a better book. Thanks.
     
  6. Randy Abercrombie

    Randy Abercrombie Supporter! Supporter

    So I feel I am being redundant here. I put together two of these presidential sets for the grandkids. Purposely selected Dansco books as they included a great deal of presidential historical facts. Being a grandad and all I thought that might be useful for developing brain pans. While the dollar coins will probably not ever become priceless pieces I still feel responsible for their condition. Do the Dansco books do the same level of harm to our coins? 7BC9F8CE-3C05-466A-B5FB-951698EF4FF0.jpeg
     
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  7. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    If Dansco makes any archive quality albums I am not aware or them, that does not mean they don't make any, they may well do so.

    That said, Dansco albums are well known for causing toning which means - yes, they can be harmful to coins. In point of fact there are many who buy Dansco albums specifically because they are so well known for causing toning.
     
  8. Randy Abercrombie

    Randy Abercrombie Supporter! Supporter

    So the key here is to select books that are noted as being archival quality then?
     
  9. CamaroDMD

    CamaroDMD [Insert Clever Title] Supporter

    I’m not sure how easily the presidential dollars tone. Yes any cardboard album puts coins in an environment that puts them at risk to tone. These coins are somewhat low value and a little toning isn’t a bad thing. I’d leave them as is and just store the albums in a way that reduces this risk.

    If it really concerns you...look into Caps Albums. I believe they are about as safe as you can get and they are easily customizable. I love mine...but they do take up a lot of space.
     
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  10. baseball21

    baseball21 Well-Known Member

    They have their "slipcase" or whatever they call them that is supposed to protect against toning. The thicker the album (aka the more pages) the less effective they probably are though
     
  11. desertgem

    desertgem Senior Errer Collecktor

    For pH to have an effect on the coins, there has to be enough moisture for the aluminum sulfate that is used at various concentrations ( close to zero for archival paper) to be in solution to react on the coin metal. The Alum doesn't dissipate from the paper, so moisture becomes the determining factor. I have seen the cheaper coin books falling apart and the coins ruined, but have also seen and have various brand cardboard coin books, that the coins have aged appropriately for the environment without any visible acidic effects. Since I live in a low humidity environment, I do not notice any acidic effect. Others ( such as in Florida, and gulf coast) may have them horrendously apparent. The rims are the area of the coins that usually darken first. If you live in a high humidity area, I do not think any specific brand of book will be much better than another due to the ability of moisture to get into the paper. If one can deal with the books being put into ziplock type food bags with sacrificial copper coat cents ( zincolns) I believe that to be an excellent long term storage. IMO, Jim
     
  12. CamaroDMD

    CamaroDMD [Insert Clever Title] Supporter

    I know I mentioned it before but for those of you who aren’t familiar...these are a great option.

    http://www.capsalbums.com/
     
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  13. Randy Abercrombie

    Randy Abercrombie Supporter! Supporter

    Well that’s the answer. Thanks for that link. I wasn’t aware of these things.
     
  14. CamaroDMD

    CamaroDMD [Insert Clever Title] Supporter

    I have one for my German coins. I have the pages unlabeled but I love it. You can order the pages custom labeled.

    I’ll try and post photos later.

    They are quite a bit larger than other albums.
     
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  15. iPen

    iPen Well-Known Member

    Not sure if that's leather or not on top, but I had an 1892 Columbian half dollar in an original Expo leather holder. The coin had this spotted, dark toning throughout. I believe that this was due to the dye from the leather slowly leeching out onto the coin over many, many decades.
     
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  16. messydesk

    messydesk Well-Known Member

    Wayte Raymond pages were famous for and sought after for their ability to tone coins nicely. Over time, however, they apparently become less up to the task, and become more archival (but still not really "archival"). I assume that over decades, chemicals used to manufacture the pages has dissipated a bit.
     
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  17. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    I am aware of their slip cases but they really don't do much because the coins are still in direct contact with the cardboard. They came up with the idea of the slip cases because people were becoming more and more aware of the dangers of using coin albums and sales were slipping drastically.

    In my opinion, coin albums in all their forms are probably responsible for the deterioration if not destruction of more coins than any other single cause - including PVC residue.
     
  18. CamaroDMD

    CamaroDMD [Insert Clever Title] Supporter

    Hey Doug...I have convinced myself that Caps albums are safe because the coins are contained within an Airtite and not in direct contact with anything else. Am I misleading myself or is this a safe (or at least safer) option?
     
  19. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    Air-Tite holders, in and of themselves, will not protect your coins from toning. This is because they are NOT airtight, no coin holder is airtight. Air-Tites will slow toning down because they reduce air flow but they will not stop it. And even though they prevent direct contact with cardboard, that doesn't change anything either because direct contact is not the problem - air getting to the coins is the problem.

    You see, with any cardboard album it is not the direct contact between the coin and cardboard that causes toning. The thing that causes the toning is the gasses that are put off by the cardboard. It is the proximity of the coins to the gasses that is the sole issue. And since the gasses can still get to the coins even though they are in an Air-Tite holder the coins will still tone.

    As for the Caps albums themselves, I looked everywhere on their web site and I can find absolutely nothing that says their albums are made of archival quality materials. Those materials include the outer binder, the pages themselves which includes what I assume is paper or cardboard and the plastic that covers it. Any and all of these things, if they are not made of inert materials, will put off gasses that are harmful to the coins.

    So simple answer, yes, you probably are misleading yourself. Is the Caps system better than regular coin albums ? Yes, without a doubt. But it won't stop toning, it will merely slow it down.
     
  20. CamaroDMD

    CamaroDMD [Insert Clever Title] Supporter

    Fair enough. My view is that you really can't stop toning...merely slow it down. I prefer to have my coins in some kind of a book so they are easier to view and enjoy.

    The Caps pages are made of a hard clear plastic. They are not cardboard. The insert used that has the labels printed on them is some kind of hard paper...I do now know if it is archival quality or not.

    From what I have seen...these are the safest book option available. But they aren't perfect and you raise some good points about them.
     
  21. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    Not all hard clear plastic is inert. I have no idea if their's is or not.

    And again, neither do I with any degree of certainty. However, when a company uses inert or archival (both mean the same thing) materials - they typically say so because it is a very important point in advertising. And when they don't say so, it typically is not inert. And that is a very important part of advertising as well !
     
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