Does anyone know who sells AT coins?

I also have wondered why PCGS, ANACS, NCG,ICG, etc. wouldn't publicly offer grants for such research and then I realized that they would consider it proprietary information if they did. So you are correct, it would have to be a thesis. I can Imagine the look on the NSF panel when they request 50 AGE to experiment on.

Jim

 

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Yes, if you cannot answer to other people about what you are doing, then you know it is wrong.

 

Obviously, you have been brought up in a good environment. Kudos to your parents and family. I am a tougher critic of myself than others, so my actions have to pass answering to myself. When one lives long enough, it is almost impossible not to do things when you are young and then realize how it wasn't right when you get older. Sometimes you can right things, sometimes you can't.

I think you and Rigo are on a good idea, you just have to arm yourself correctly with "weapons of knowledge" rather than "slogans". A person has to really understand chemistry, photon and optic theory ( thin film interference ), and I suspect maybe even some quantum theory for bonding energies. I have read yours and Rigo's postings on Coinhood and I see your concerns at preventing rip offs.But you just can't rile the villagers to grab their pitchforks without evidence or later you will wonder if you were right. Both of you have a good day.

Jim

 

I see where you are coming from here.
I think it is just so obvious to us, that this guy is a coin doctor, I mean you look at the coins, and you look at the seller, and how the pics are exactly the same, in the same exact way they are taken, and what the pics look like.
My mind is made up, that this guy is a coin doctoring trying to scam others, everything seems fishy to me. I will stay away from sellers like the ones that Rigo and I have found.
I think that the AT vs. NT discussion can never be answered correctly as to detect it, and be accurate 100% of the time, most of how we determine AT or NT is just speculation, it hard to say whether or not a certain coin is AT or NT, wish I had all the answers.

 

Don't we all, don't we all!!!

Jim

 

toned

To each his or her on.
Toned coins are damaged.
Would you buy a new car if the paint was not right?

I like some toned coins and have bought a few.
Plus I have bought both AT & NT.

No matter what you say all coins are toned by someone.

 

Whoa slow down there.
Somebody drops a coin outside, and it gets beautiful rainbow toning over the months (or longer)
Would you consider that to be toned by the person who dropped it? I, nor would most people say that it was toned by man, as it has been out in nature, and it just happened to be dropped be somebody.
Can you explain to me your theory on how all coins are toned by people?

 

Well Doug, there is a difference between a coin doctor, and somebody who lets coins tone. I believe that going through a chemical process to tone a coin just isn't right. If somebody knows that toned coins sell for a premium, that person will find ways to just make money off of people. Now am I saying all AT coins are ugly? No, some look rather nice. Am I saying you can tell every single coin NT from AT, no, but it IS possible to tell on some coins.

But what I am saying is there are some examples of AT coins, that look so ugly, and the colors are just obnoxious, and I see the bids get way up there, and I cannot help but wonder what the feedback will be like, or if it is just a newbie who will join up here and start a new thread about the new coin he bought.

Do I think that putting a coin in an envelope and letting it tone and then selling it later is a bad thing? Nope not at all, that is a natural occurrence, that might have been enforced by man, but it is still natural.

Do I think throwing the coin in the oven, or using some other chemical process other than heat, to make the coin tone into some obnoxious colors, only to have somebody buy it, but that "somebody" doesn't know that there are NT and AT, and thinks everything toned naturally?
Well yes I do think that is bad... If the person wants to do this, but he never sells, or when he does, he states in the auction "I toned this coin" "This coin has artificial toning", that would be fine by me, because we are aware that the coin is AT, and that he did it, that would be an honest seller. I go back to my earlier point, if this seller did these things to the coin, and cannot say that he/she toned the coin by artificial means, then is hes/she being honest? IMO, no, he/she isn't being an honest, and they are just getting more money off of other people lack of knowledge. If there is nothing wrong with this process of toning a coin, making it look obnoxious, like a rainbow threw up, why don't sellers say that it is artificial and that they did something to it?

 

Here's an interesting query. Think of the "casualties" in this respect: a coin is really NT, but is judged AT, for certain, um, "tells." There's some broken-down outfit that does that, puts AT right on the plastic, although I forget who they are. It's a poker game.

 

Would I buy the coin? If it was album toned yes, vs. the seller claiming he did things to it, like using gasses, or applying heat.

Doug, I don't believe in not being honest, if I toned a coin artificially, I'd say what I did, if I let it tone in an album for years, I'd say that as well, I cannot stand dishonest people.
Doug, here is what made Rigo start this thread

http://cgi.ebay.com/1949-S-Franklin...trkparms=65:12|66:2|39:1|72:2127|293:2|294:50

http://cgi.ebay.com/TONED-1951-D-SI...trkparms=65:12|66:2|39:1|72:2127|293:1|294:50

So you tell me that those coins look exactly the same as a naturally toned coin? Not a chance. These are artificially toned coins, from what we believe is the same seller with two separate accounts. These coins are ugly and obnoxious, IMO. This is the difference Doug, between having a nicely album toned coin, vs. these big, bright, obnoxious colors all over this coin. I think if people were more knowledgeable and knew that this was fake toning, they wouldn't buy it, if sellers cannot be honest, they shouldn't be selling. (In my mind stating that a coin has natural toning, when it is AT, just never telling the person that you toned the coin, is just as bad as throwing a bunch of common dated pennies in a roll, and calling it unsearched)

 

If the seller used gasses to tone the coin artificially and looked like the coins in the links would I buy it? Nope.
If the seller used gasses and stated he did so, and the coin looked good would I buy it? Nope.
If the seller said he had put the coins in an album, and they developed a nice shade of blue, would I buy it? If that was what toning I was looking for, or what coin I was looking for, Yes maybe.
If the seller said he had this coin at the bottom of his sock drawer, and said it toned, would I buy it? Yes, once again if I was looking for that certain coin/type of toning

What I get tired of seeing is the AT garbage, like that in the links in my previous post. If it looks like that, I don't care what the seller did I am not buying. Now some coins, that are AT might look like a NT coin. If the seller doesn't state he did anything to the coin, and just says it is toned, and I cannot tell the difference, I might buy it, if he actually did do something to the coin, and I cannot tell, and lets say I send it into a TPG numerous times and it comes back BB, then I know I might have gotten ripped off. My point is, if you doctor a coin, to a point where it looks like anything near the coins in the links, and you claim it to be natural, or do not state that you toned the coin, you are just being a dishonest person, and a scammer in my mind.

 

Sorry guys - I just can't get excited about whether the tarnish on a coin is deliberate or accidental.

 

Do you really mean that? Have you really never seen a toned coin that you thought was more attractive than a brilliant counterpart? What do you think of this coin?



BTW, calling it tarnish instead of toning doesn't make it less attractive.

 

wheres our on CT staff alchemist?