Do you think that Roma Numismatics overestimate the value of their lots?

Discussion in 'Ancient Coins' started by Herberto, Jul 1, 2018.

  1. Herberto

    Herberto Well-Known Member

    What is your impression?

    I have a feeling that they tend to do it.
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  3. Smojo

    Smojo dreamliner

    Sometimes yeah, but they're not amongst the worst.
    But in all reallity who doesn't want more than they should?
    Besides amongst friends. Profit is what keeps businesses going.
    I know I've over paid on atleast a few coins but also under paid a few, it's what we as collectors do.
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  4. arashpour

    arashpour Well-Known Member

    I agree @Smojo sometimes we pay higher for what we like and sometimes we get good deals when others don't realize or maybe when less collectors attend a specific bid
  5. Ken Dorney

    Ken Dorney Yea, I'm Cool That Way...

    Estimates are honestly irrelevant to most people and serve little purpose in this day and age. In previous decades estimates were important (if they were accurate) as there was little information available on market prices. One had to collect hundreds of auction and sales catalogs to know what we can now in just a couple of seconds and a search engine. The only thing that matters now is the opening price and what your high bid might be. There are plenty of times where I see the opening bid and pass the lot as I felt it was retail (or above). Many dealers are now dispensing with estimates and simply listing the needed opening bid.
  6. Andrew McCabe

    Andrew McCabe Well-Known Member

    It's very easy to check. Just look at a random auction. Select a group of coins. See whether on average they met estimate or not. I know the answer as I've attended many auctions and watched what happens and I've also often consigned. What I've see is that results exceed estimate overall in auction after auction. The estimates are on average correct or a little low. It's not something you need to guess or speculate on. The numbers are public.
  7. TIF

    TIF Always learning. Supporter

    In addition to seeing if the coins met estimate, another barometer is the percentage of unsold lots in a given auction. Sixbid makes it rather easy. Go to their Completed Auctions tab, select the auction house of interest, and review the Prices Realized lists.

    For example, the most recent Roma sale:
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  8. Nicholas Molinari

    Nicholas Molinari Well-Known Member

    Andrew! Welcome to CT!
  9. Nicholas Molinari

    Nicholas Molinari Well-Known Member

    My only Roma win. Slightly over estimate but I was offered about 280GBP by another client NOT to buy it.

  10. Jay GT4

    Jay GT4 Well-Known Member


    Been a long time!
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  11. Andrew McCabe

    Andrew McCabe Well-Known Member

    Thanks Nick, also to Jay. I don't expect to be posting much but will lurk so I can reply from time to time. I've also resumed service on a couple of other forums. There's two reasons I've switched off for over a year. One is that on matters where I and others have a expertise, we've taken to often messaging directly. I/we got discouraged by repeatedly crafting long, educational and interesting posts full of lots of illustrations and getting no meaningful numismatic responses other than "nice coin". One day after a meaningless response to a great post that took a lot of work, I bailed (on forums in general). The second reason is I've been working on a non coin book for much of the last year which has just been published, to be precise this: (in my mum's name but effectively a joint effort). Some pics below. Far distance from numismatics. I'm putting my toe back into forums in general but very gently. Am working on numismatic stuff again now too. That helps. The last pic is of the main author of the book shown below, a few weeks ago in the casino at Biarritz.

    Attached Files:

  12. Nicholas Molinari

    Nicholas Molinari Well-Known Member

    One of things I like about CT is the “like” button, precisely because it is a convenient way for someone with nothing meaningful to add to express his/her interest and appreciation.

    I recognized Emmett’s work, some of which I’ve seen in person, but never knew his name. I’ll be sure to pick up a copy. Congratulations.
  13. Packrat

    Packrat Active Member

    I love the online auctions that post estimate $10-$10,000
  14. Fugio1

    Fugio1 Supporter! Supporter

    I have a few coins from Roma Numismatics auctions in my collection, all of which had hammer prices greater than estimates. This may be either be a statement about estimates or excessive zeal for what I want. Here is my most recent purchase from ROMA. Almost double the estimate but it was mis-attributed and is an excessively rare anonymous peaked visor variety not found in Crawford. The rarity doesn't mean it was worth more, but it was worth more to me. 77a.jpg
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  15. red_spork

    red_spork Triumvir monetalis Supporter


    First, welcome to CoinTalk. I'm happy to see you finally decided to join us, even if mostly to lurk. As far as lack of worthwhile responses to your posts, while I can understand why that can be frustrating, I for one found your old posts on FORVM very useful when I began collecting and studying RR coinage. I rarely comment on them because I rarely have anything to add but I will say that not only did I learn a lot about coins themselves from those posts, I figured out what sort of books and papers I needed to work on tracking down from your citations. Sometimes I'll even link those old posts from FORVM or RROME here as "further reading" because they provide the information far better than I can on my own.

    Also, while I know you mostly plan to lurk here I highly recommend posting some of your write-ups: there are many members whom you would recognize here and good posts on RR topics generate plenty of discussion. Sure, there are the usual "nice coin" responses but I think theres usually plenty of interesting discussion to go along with it as well.

    -Jordan Montgomery
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  16. Agricantus

    Agricantus Allium aflatunense

    Welcome Andrew! I have that nice coin from your collection (M Herennius)

    +1 on what red_spork said. I am guilty of the meaningless comments, as I have little to add to the well researched posts by Doug, RomanCollector,Curtisimo and others. But I am learning a lot from them
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  17. Alegandron

    Alegandron "ΤΩΙ ΚΡΑΤΙΣΤΩΙ..." ΜΕΓΑΣ ΑΛΕΞΑΝΔΡΟΣ, June 323 BCE Supporter

    HERE! - HERE!
    I thoroughly enjoy collecting the Roman Republic coins, and rely heavily, albeit "lurking" on your, @Andrew McCabe 's, information!!! Although I am not a Numismatist, I collect Historically. Your information is wonderful for me.

    Incidentally, @red_spork numismatically corrects me all the time, (yeah, I love it!). And I know he has gained a lot from your work!

    To be honest, I would LOVE to see more postings regarding the Roman Republic!

    RR AR Denarius 214-208 BCE Roma R X behind - Dioscuri R ROMA linear frame stars Cr 68-1b SICILY Syd 191 RBW 280

    RR Anon AR denarius Roma 211-206 BCE ROMA incus Dioscuri single horn-helmet Sear-- Craw 68-1b SICILY ISSUE was cr 44-5

    RR Quinarius 212-195 BCE 1.8g Luceria mint Anon Craw 098-B1 L VERY RARE.jpg
    RR Quinarius 212-195 BCE 1.8g Luceria mint Anon Craw 098-B1 L
  18. David Atherton

    David Atherton Flavian Fanatic

    I am glad to see you here as well. Even though RR coinage is not my area of interest or expertise, I keenly read your posts because many of the coins I collect are directly inspired by that era. Welcome aboard!
    Last edited: Jul 3, 2018
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  19. Orfew

    Orfew Supporter! Supporter

    Welcome @Andrew McCabe !

    I have greatly enjoyed your posts on FAC. I hope that you will continue to post here.
  20. dougsmit

    dougsmit Member Supporter

    I am encouraged by this trend but have not seen it as much as I would like. Estimates on the few sales I still follow are increasingly useless. In particular look at the gold results in CNG sales that tend to pass the estimate in the first few days after the sale goes up. Similarly, most sales have a minimum charge, what I call a 'nuisance value', to list a lot so you will not see a lot in that sale estimated to return less than the house will take as their fee. This can lead to lots estimated at $100 when $50 would be full retail. Minimum bids are fine. I believe low estimates are more likely to result in a decent final sale price than high estimates which return many unsold lots. Either way, we hope the result will have some resemblance to what might be called a fair price. Any seller has to face the question whether they actually want to sell at the price set by the bidding or only if they can make a profit over what they paid.

    Here we have a problem with no answer that I can see. If we have a policy of only lurking and posting when we can not bear to be silent, the poster who did craft a great post has no way of knowing whether anyone read, let alone appreciated it. If the subject is Roman Republican, I am not terribly likely to have anything pertinent to add to your post (I am not an RR specialist but have a few - perhaps about the same number of coins that I have of a dozen other 'specialties' in which I don't specialize. Not knowing enough to have anything worthwhile to say and not wanting to leave the impression that the post was not read and appreciated, we say, "Nice coin!"

    I do have questions about RR (and about all those other specialties) but asking them on Forvm often gets no replies while asking on Coin Talk gets "Nice coin!" Is this evidence of many lurkers or just of a question with no answer?

    Example: What is wrong with this coin? Bad style?

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  21. Bing

    Bing Illegitimi non carborundum Supporter

    I have no idea Doug, but I like the coin! So in keeping with previous posts: Nice coin.
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